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Rubicant
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 Post Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 1:30 pm    Post subject: Unfinished forever?
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A browsergame is never "finished". Even I know that. There´s always something to fix or to add, in order to make it better. But there seem to be no progress at all in this game. That´s quite a shame, ´cause it has a big potential.
Which isn´t used at all. Creature lab is in testphase since 1-2 years and there are no information available about it. The manual´s a joke. Many important parts are either missing or not enough explained.
If it wouldn´t be for the newcomer-helpers and the good community, who trys to fill in for the countless gaps, there would be hardly someone playing.

Well, nobody has to play this game. I guess, that´s the teams excuse for leaving it, as it is. Although they have some responsibility towards the (small) community. However, as it is, spacetrace has hardly a future. Only a past.
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MicroJak
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 Post Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 4:53 pm    Post subject:
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Yes. I couldn't agree more..


I only joined Spacetrace because of a friend, and now that friend has left... So why am I still here? Because I know everyone and I like everyone and I do not want to lose that. However, I do not enjoy spacetrace ingame. It's tedious, the manual is terrible and so if the Spacetrace Wiki... no one even knows what it is and nobody even cares to use it.

The text is small and the majority of players do not even know what a 'Deep Scan Probe' is... I get annoyed at so many things.. the way apollo cruiser should be 'apollo cruisers'.. the way that, even after I have said thousands of times to the admins, 'IRC stats should return', 'why are those blasted default names still active', 'credits should do more things'... and it's not becuase my ideas or anybody elses ideas are bad ones, it's just the admins do not seem to care. And if they did, then they would have done something about it ages ago.

Look at the Suggestion topic, for instance.

Out of all the suggestions, none of them have been implemented. So what's the point?

Then there is the Inventions page.... ok, so, some of the inventions are not exactly masterpieces.. but look at all that potential! When was the last time something ever from 'New Technology Inventions' actually became a New Technology?


Now, I like admin, but when I play other games and I go on other forums and I see the great community and the thousands of players.. I think to myself, shit, why isn't Spacetrace like this? Then I look at the administrators of these games.. they post everyday and reply to every suggestion, and fix every bug. What do our admins do?

Well, 'admin', has not made a post since October the 6th.

'spacetrace' has not made a post since March the 10th

'administrator' has not made a post since November the 1st 2003! His website link is 'www.spacetrace.com'!! He's been inactive for 5 solid years!


And don't even mention the others...


It's gone so far that it seems normal player like.. I don't know.. RobertRoy.. al12... ImperialWizard, perhaps even me(!!!), care more about the game than the admins do. I mean, I try to make a difference.. I made a Spacetrace advert, I set up endless 'Spacetrace Quiz Nights'.. I help players and I go on IRC every single day..

...when was the last time admin went on IRC?

<spacebot> admin was active last time at Oct 09 21:53

Without the community Spacetrace would be dead. The only reason everyone is coming back is, not because the game is a lot better, but because Shade is back. And so many people have left! Jazzy.. Gorthmorg, DeathKiller.. Dutchbatter.. Star Commander.. and it's all because the game has lost it's soul. Either that, or it never had it in the first place.

So, as I said, admin, your a nice guy and you mean well, but because of your inactiveness, because of the hundreds of times you have not listened to suggestions.. because of the fact that 90% of the ST community don't even know who you are... ST has turned into the shithole that it is today; and it's such a shame because as Rubicant said, it's got so much potential yet it's being ruined.


So, I for one, will be leaving today and taking all I can with me, until this game improves and until big changes are made. An admin should be like a manager and should be heavily involved in the game.. they shouldn't be dwindling about the stadium car park doing fuck all to recapture the spirit.

KoT and Lowvoice have joined me in my pledge. I encourage all of you who have sense to do the same.


I hope this won't be my last post.


MJ



P.S - Admin, if you do decide to try and make everything better again, I and many others will help you every step of the way. Whatever it needs.. programming.. spell checking.. you name it and we'll help you. Just so you know, we're here to make ST a better place too.
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Last edited by MicroJak on Mon Oct 20, 2008 9:03 pm; edited 2 times in total
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imperial wizzard
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 Post Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 7:55 pm    Post subject:
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After reading the post of MJ and Rubicant i cannot say you guys are wrong every word is true, when i started ST we were with 250/300 players. if u didnt log in every 8h ur base would be kicked, there were nice wars going on.

All Vets were Noob helpers and they helped every newbie with every thing, creating special alliance with a guardians from the main alliance, like -TO- helped -TOa- some players now this part of -TO- i was once a noob learned much in -TOa-. All day long there were people online, all the time there were attacks and incomings, and for now...havent have a single incoming for about 7 days...let call it boring.

I'm playing also a other online spacewar game, the games is active in several countries around the world, this week i head a question for a GO within 24h i had my answer, 3 months ago i asked the admin a question.....still waiting.... at the other game there are between 5000 and 12000 players on each server for example on the .nl server 15 different uni's with about 4000/5000 players, on the .org server 40 uni's with average of 7000/8000 players world wide.

If this is possible on other online webbrowser games why cant ST have 400/500 players, maybe its allot but, if we could have 250 players we would play active and the rest plays a few times a day, we would have more OLD players who would came back and getting active.

We have alot of different players from different countries al over the world playing or played ST, if ADMIN would make same advertisment, i'm shore players would search for games site in there own country to place the st advertisements so st would get some more players.

but like Rubicant and MJ said if the admin doesnt give a f*** about ST why should players care, and why are players still here....because they care...they like game....but they would like it even more if things change or getting better.

I will not stop playing ST, but MJ and other players who will follow MJ in his statement u own my respect...and hope to see u soon....


GodDAMNED ADMIN do us a favor and care about UR game.....

Dont let -SPACETRACE- die in your hands....


greetz
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 Post Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 8:42 pm    Post subject:
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Ok... as most of you know I'm really fairly new to the game... and I really enjoy playing spacetrace...

@ players ::: I have noticed that Admin isn't as active or involved as we all would like him to be... but I'm sure that there is good reason... I know as being a programmer myself - when I designed a creation the last thing I would want is for it to fall to the ground and become history... has anyone offered to assist admin??? on the other hand has admin even spoken of needing assistance??? I can see where and why admin might have a reason for not being very active but I also feel that what everyone is doing here is not giving the guy a chance... offer the guy assistance if you care about this game so much... don't bail out on him...

@ admin ::: being a programmer myself, I know how hard it is to manage a site when your extremely busy in real life... the players here are only asking for some feedback and interaction from you... this game does indeed have great potential and I'm sure that if you don't have the time there is some in this game like myself willing to offer you free assistance just to see the game survive... you could always appoint somebody to manage things for you... just a thought... but I know deep down inside you have to care about this wonderful creation that you have made... just don't sweep it under the rug... lets figure out someway of appointing an admin assistance team or something of that nature... you have my help if you would like it admin... as I do believe if you just spoke the words I need some help - everyone (well those that care) would be willing to help in any manner possible... how great would it feel admin if your creation reached 500+ players... wouldn't that make you feel highly accomplished??? I'd think so... I've got some ideas for you, if your willing to listen... take 'em or leave 'em - this is your choice but just know I care...
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al12
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 Post Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 9:20 pm    Post subject:
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I saw we make sure we get a respons by the admins. We do that by all sending a pm to the admins, make it something like: Looks at this topic, this is about our current situation, pleas read it. They can't ignore 10+ pm's. And if anyone can do any programming etc post that here so if the admin have a look we/they know who can help with what.
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 Post Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 9:25 pm    Post subject:
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I've decided to take the initiative to writting up a new manual that would be much more easy to understand from the newbs point of view...

If I can get some assistance in regards to a few articles needed that would be great...

please post any suggestions for ST 101 (the name for the new manual) on the following link :::

on the ST forums :::

http://www.spacetrace.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6489

OR on the CGC forums :::

http://cgcalliance.forumportal.org/forum/viewforum.php?f=40
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 Post Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 10:09 pm    Post subject:
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I have to say I kind of agree with DragonLily but DL its not like we dont help the admin those who can anyway i mean Renee and Dave redesigned the TTC, MJ makes and hosts advertisments and there are numerous projects including the wiki the admins had help with.
And MJ the admins only been gone a few weeks, he might be busy give him a break willya
And everybody else if u replace the word admin with god this topic becomes very amusing to atheists
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Rubicant
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 Post Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 11:42 pm    Post subject:
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Quite impressive, that the topic had such a reply.

@imperial wizzard
Quote:
if ADMIN would make same advertisment, i'm shore players would search for games site in there own country to place the st advertisements so st would get some more players.


There is such a advertisment in german language at www.galaxy-news.de. Although I don´t know, who made it. But more advertisment and new players wouldn´t change the reasons, why the old players have stoped. And I guess, we all know these reasons.

@DragonLilly
To you, it looks like we seem like a bunch of ungrateful and impatient faultfinders. The people aren´t ungrateful. They know, it´s a great game and they admit it. And they have been patient for a very long time, Lilly. Else, they wouldn´t react the way they did about this thread.
But they´re sick of waiting. There had been dozens of possibilities to prevent a situations as it is now. And there had been enough occassions for that, too. Still it came this far.

As for the community, you´ve read it by your self. They had offered their help in the past countless times, without any noteworthy result. And they even gave their best independently of the inactivity of the admin-team. As a matter of fact, that´s the only reason, why this game is still "alive".

@ mjx1
"admin" is not or should not be the only one active from the whole team. It´s fully understandable, that a single man can´t take care of everything in the blink of an eye. But have you seen any nameable progress for changing this situation in the last months? By all means, I don´t thing that the actual situation is quite "amusing", either way you look at it or play with words.
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 Post Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 11:44 pm    Post subject:
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This game seems to abandoned by all but the community and its host. Admin's account has been trusted to Rubens (Or perhaps was he admin all along ) and has been has active as me.

I myself can't say I joined in the high times of Spacetrace, like imp. wizzard, but just after the Era's were added to the game. I refered MJ to the game, and had a great time as Ioniron, The Crusher, and some other aliases. These were the times the game started to decline.

New inventions became even more of a pile of shit then they used to be (Though I can't say I haven't contributed to the list of craptastic creations) and the playerbase diminished.

Basically, while sometimes there were some events (Grand War), spacetrace was slowly dying. Sometimes we'd realize it, sometimes we didn't, but it was happening all along.

There are a number of possibilities why this happened.

1.) Complexity:
As most of us know, Spacetrace is a very complex, and quite tedious game, which does not attract the target group, which is mostly teenagers, or otherwise people in their 30's.
There's 3 reasons for this.
1.1) Teenagers do enjoy the games up to date, with great graphics and interactivity more then these classic semi-text based games.
1.2) There is hardly any development in the game. And it is a well known fact that repetition gets boring.
1.3) Newb help is abysmall. The manual is confusing, and the menu links everywhere and nowhere, which causes most people to leave even at the sight of the weird system with fleets and probes linking to things quite unrelated.

2.) Lack of updates:
As mentioned in 1.2.

3.) Relatively elite community.
On the forums there is only a select group of people posting at the same time. If you check the topics of the last 31 days, you see that there is a grand total of 1 real newbie problem, which is more a bug report then anything else.
Does this mean that the game is so damn clear that no one needs to post a help thread?
Does this mean that newbie helpers are all around the galaxy helping out every in com-range? I'd rather think that no one even notices this forum, and if they do, they feel it's not relevant to the game, but rather a community on its own. It doesn't have any active forum moderators, because they don't want to "censor" (lock) all the crap that's flowing in, and it feels like bad management.

Now, let's see what's the best for the current hardcore Spacetrace community? Basically what I did is flee the recession before it would take its full effect. Let's just say I sold my Fortis shares a year before now. I'm spending my time on more offline games. They are reliable to last for as long as I want.

However, even though you've stuck on so long, I do recommend you to jump off this sinking boat as well. There's no one steering it, why bother? It's not like something else doesn't deserve you attention. There is a reason this game's playerbase is very limited, and it's an indicator. It seems that the admin's do not want to make this game worthwhile, and they hope you guys will stick, as you always did, with a game that isn't developed, which doesn't encourage them to do any better.

Show them it's serious. If the game is worth being played, it will be. If it isn't, leave it alone.
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Rubicant
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 Post Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 12:10 am    Post subject:
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Quote:
However, even though you've stuck on so long, I do recommend you to jump off this sinking boat as well. There's no one steering it, why bother? It's not like something else doesn't deserve you attention. There is a reason this game's playerbase is very limited, and it's an indicator. It seems that the admin's do not want to make this game worthwhile, and they hope you guys will stick, as you always did, with a game that isn't developed, which doesn't encourage them to do any better.


Sad, but true... That´s why micro and some others have made the decision to leave the game, until it gets better. If it gets better. Sure, some will follow. To be honest, I don´t think that this will change anything. A sinking ship... And we´re sitting here with spoons to get the water out. But you´re right. When the game isn´t going anywhere, it might really be better to let it die and to go for new targets.

As for the community, who wouldn´t want to lose each others contact, their friends and comrades: There are ways to prevent that. Even imaginable to meet with everyone in another "ship" and play along there... But I can most likely say you, why it hasn´t happened earlier. Call it "wishfull thinking" or hope. Most unfortunate, this seems contradictory to reality.
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 Post Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 12:26 am    Post subject:
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The servers are still up and running right...?
And whenever there's a problem with it, admin goes and fixes it.

While it would be nice to have updates and stuff, I'm glad admin takes the time to make sure the game is always up and running.
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 Post Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 12:31 am    Post subject:
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@ Rubicant - Let me get this right... you only joined the game about a week ago... you join the game and cause havoc amongst the community... WOW... what gave you the right to speak for everyone... I have spoken with MJ on MSN - he stated that he is NOT leaving in-game only the forums... If you don't like the game leave and leave the community alone... you have no right speaking for anyone but yourself... especially when you don't know the facts behind the truth... and don't try and put words in my mouth... maybe if something was said before hand by others that it wouldn't have gotten so bad now... you don't know me and of course I don't know you but you come into our game less then a week ago and begin recking havoc... I don't know about what everyone else thinks but I don't see you welcome into this community at least not by me - anyways... if you don't like the game then quit... leave it alone and let us all be... don't join a game and wreck havoc within your first week... that doesn't look very good... you act like you know all and I doubt you do... hell I don't even know all...

@ mjx1 - I can understand that several attempts have been made before... but has anyone offered programming assistance to admin??? I doubt that... mostly everything that was or has been attempted is minor compared to what admin has to deal with... being an admin is like leading 10+ alliances all at once... not an easy task to even be a leader of one and admin forums...

@ dinskydude - Its obvious that everything you post is in the negative manner towards anything associated with ST... you are what we would call a downer in the US... your opinions are not needed - it's negative for the morale factor...

@ everyone else - there is no need to quit the game over some newb running his mouth who thinks he knows all and everything in a week about the ST history... hell I don't even know all but sure as hell have a better understanding than him... anyways... lets ban forces and show admin we actually care instead of running away... running away the game will for surely die... I would say let's give admin a chance to respond to this thread and see what he has to say... there is no need to give up and walk away...

I am currently working on a new manual because someone suggested it... all you have to do is put something out there and I'm sure somebody would be more then willing to help out... unless it deals with game programming - which is under the control of admin...

REMEMBER ALL THIS GAME IS FREE... AND THEREFORE IS NOT THE ONLY JOB ADMIN HAS... IF HE CHARGED US FOR THIS GAME I COULD EASILY UNDERSTAND ALL OF THE B!TCHING BUT COME 'ON ITS A FREE GAME RUN BY A GUY THAT HAS A LIFE - THIS ISN'T HIS ONLY JOB... I'M SURE HE CREATED THIS GAME FOR FUN... DAMNIT ALL... COME 'ON GET REAL...
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Rubicant
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 Post Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 12:39 am    Post subject:
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Oh, Lilly. What are you so upset at? Not the right to speak for everyone? Sorry, but you seem kind of blind. Everyone here speaks for himself and they have the same opinion as me, even though the aren´t playing "a week". Strange, huh? But I guess, you really want only to see, what you want to see.
I´m the bad one, ´cause I said what´s true? Worried about your little world? Hanging on your little, sinking ship? But don´t you dare blame me or others which see things, as they are.

I´ve played more than enough browsergames and I can judge this game by what I´ve seen and read this far. You´re the one who´s pissed off and starts accusing people. Get a hold on your self.

edit: Reading your postings gets kind of ridiculous. You´ve proven clearly, that you are unable to discuss things without getting insulting. I won´t react to them anymore. And it wasn´t even worth to write a new post for that, so I edited this one.
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 Post Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 12:50 am    Post subject:
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@ Rubicant - let me get this right - you quit until and if the game gets better but your still logging into it

and as for you speaking for people MJ isn't quitting... LOL - I talked to him on MSN after his original post with al12... he said he's quitting the forums, not ingame... so yah don't be speaking that people are quitting when they aren't...

and as for me being upset... LOL - your out to sabotage this game... aren't yah... you 1 week old newb...

so do us a favor... you've already stated ur quitting ... plz do so or change your post... cuz your not walking the talk that coming out of those flapping lips...
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 Post Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 1:34 am    Post subject:
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DragonLilly wrote:
I don't know about what everyone else thinks but I don't see you welcome into this community at least not by me


Cmon now DL ur meant 2 b a newbie helper... thats not helping...

back to the topic...

i've only played 2 eras but i have noticed the game decline in numbers since i first started... something does need 2 be done... Living in Australia i havent seen any advertising for ST on any of .com.au sites... i stumble acrossed it an american site... As many have said this game has potential... i would hate to see fold...

I dont know if i could do much but i would be willing to help in anyway.
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 Post Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 1:43 am    Post subject:
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Holy Crusader wrote:
DragonLilly wrote:
I don't know about what everyone else thinks but I don't see you welcome into this community at least not by me


Cmon now DL ur meant 2 b a newbie helper... thats not helping...

back to the topic...

i've only played 2 eras but i have noticed the game decline in numbers since i first started... something does need 2 be done... Living in Australia i havent seen any advertising for ST on any of .com.au sites... i stumble acrossed it an american site... As many have said this game has potential... i would hate to see fold...

I dont know if i could do much but i would be willing to help in anyway.


HC, I know I'm supposed to be a newbie helper but I take offense to those trying to wreck havoc upon the great community we have... he's only been playing a week and is already running his mouth about all of this... and he doesn't even know half of the story... hell I don't even know half of it... I just don't think he has any right to be coming into our community and within a week stirring up all of this sh!t... I did welcome him at first with open arms and tried to help him the best I could... but I just don't attitude he's throwing with being so new and the havoc he has caused with this thread... the ST community is now turned upside down because of his post... I can understand if he (we) paid for the game to be given the right to b!tch like he is but its absolutely free... admin could just start to charge us all... but he's not... give the man a break is all I'm saying... and a newb shouldn't be coming into a community stirring up intentional trouble... like so... I know thats not a good way to get in with the community and especially with someone that WAS willing to help him...
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 Post Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 2:07 am    Post subject:
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Of course, it would be great to turn this game into something, that works and that the community can be proud of. I can understand, that many feel so. I too would like to see the game getting better. But as a matter of fact, there is very little normal users can do. The big and nessecary changes have to be done by the admin. Sure it is great that the community cares about the game. But he´s the first one who should care about it.
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 Post Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 6:52 am    Post subject:
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DragonLilly wrote:

1)...being an admin is like leading 10+ alliances all at once... not an easy task to even be a leader of one and admin forums...

2) @ dinskydude - Its obvious that everything you post is in the negative manner towards anything associated with ST... you are what we would call a downer in the US... your opinions are not needed - it's negative for the morale factor...

3)@ everyone else - there is no need to quit the game over some newb running his mouth who thinks he knows all and everything in a week about the ST history...

4)REMEMBER ALL THIS GAME IS FREE... AND THEREFORE IS NOT THE ONLY JOB ADMIN HAS... IF HE CHARGED US FOR THIS GAME I COULD EASILY UNDERSTAND ALL OF THE B!TCHING BUT COME 'ON ITS A FREE GAME RUN BY A GUY THAT HAS A LIFE - THIS ISN'T HIS ONLY JOB... I'M SURE HE CREATED THIS GAME FOR FUN... DAMNIT ALL... COME 'ON GET REAL...


1) That's hardly comparable. Being an admin doesn't directly mean you're part of the galaxy. Ingame situations do not apply to you, 10 alliances mean you will have to keep up with about 100 fleets, tactics, and you will rely on battle reports that are generated practically by the roll of a dice. Programming an online game is hardly anything like that. The admins can change anything, and they won't have to worry about something like complaints, because what they need to change has most likely been requests.

2) I never said I didn't like the game before. I'm just saying that I left because of the situation it's in now. My comments are negative due to the fact that this is a grave situation, which needs to be handled as such.

3) Well, at least it's not me you're mentioning there...

4) If he would charge us to play it, I bet there wouldn't be any players left. Even if 10 stuck around, they'd leave because of inactivity. Also, it's not like he's paying us to play it, or I might have missed something.
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Joined: 09 Jan 2002
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 Post Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 11:07 am    Post subject:
Reply with quote

hi,

i don know what to say...

we started the game in 2001 only for fun reasons.
we tried to create a game, that is defferent from the other spacegames where you just have to grow and grow untill you are unbeateable. and only possible, if you invest most of your free time in the game (no time for meeting friends or getting a girl/boyfriend)
that s boring, so we created a game, where only strategy is the goal and that is playable with less time investment, that can be a quiet companian in your life in a parallel universe in space.

since we only developed the game in our free time (and during that period i had a lot of it for about one year) we haven't had the claim to create a perfect comercial game with no bugs.
it is more a playground, and that it still is.

i think we attract some players, that like that flare.
sure some players grow older and loose interest in a game, but thats perfectly normal and nothing to worry about.

at the moment we have not much time to create new features, or complete the unfinished ones, but it is always on out ToDo list, but there are more important things at the moment that have nothing to do with computers.

i hope some of you enjoy spacetrace like it is, and be sure:
there are coming new features every now and then

Greetings,
Ruben
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al12
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Joined: 17 Apr 2006
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 Post Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 12:49 pm    Post subject:

Well, what do you know. An answer a day later
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