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win back your flag without a fight
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 Post Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 2:34 pm    Post subject: win back your flag without a fight
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if you drop below 3 members cause some member's evo is over,
then you win back your flag without a fight and without point loss.

This is treated as CHEATING, if you win back your flag by evoing out a member.
the only way to get back your flag is by winning it back, that's the game! please don't Cheat.

please tell everyone!

it will be fixed if we have time.

there is a discussion about what we should do if someone is dropping to 2 members BEFORE the flag is captured (which is not Cheating yet) :
http://www.spacetrace.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6540

----------

i think the easiest and only possible solution (in programming in spacetrace) is that if someone evoes out and the members slip below 3 then the flagholder will automatically get his points from the alliance (the same as if they claimed the points now) the member that evoes out will also loose his part to the flagholder
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 Post Posted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 7:24 am    Post subject:
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the discussion about this:
Durago wrote:
they ban players BEFORE the flag is captured, then unban after the battle. they did it the other day to me.
is taken here:
http://www.spacetrace.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6540&start=60

but i have to know:
so is it possible by banning the third member in a 3 man alliance to get the flag back without pointloss?

if it is then this is also treated as CHEATING.

we will fix that when we have time
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 Post Posted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 7:52 am    Post subject:
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i have not run across that happening, i think that was something someone 'suggested' as a fix.
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 Post Posted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 2:53 pm    Post subject:
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we are discussing in our team about this bug AFTER flag is stolen now, but we cannot find the real bug.

how exactly do you exploit it?

at the moment it is like this in ST:
1.
if you are only 3 members and your flag is stolen, you cannot ban anyone
2.
if you are less than 3, noone can steal the flag

the thing is, that if you have 3 players in your alliance and one of them is deleted, after the deletion, the flag is still stolen, but the moment, you claim your points, you get nothing and the flag is just gone

right?
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 Post Posted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 3:22 pm    Post subject:
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admin wrote:
...but the moment, you claim your points, you get nothing and the flag is just gone

right?


i tested again, and it seems, like just the message is wrong:

it sais, you don?t have a flag to claim, but i got the points for the flag i claimed from the remaining 2 player alliance in my test surrounding
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 Post Posted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 5:03 pm    Post subject:
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DragonLilly wrote:
I think it was misread, the original point I was trying to make is when a bigger alliance has plenty of members they can have several members resest constantly making the flag harder to find for alliances once their flag has been taken... the 10 day maximum to hold a flag is too short for this play

say: an alliance has 8 members...
they can have 2 players cancel their current accounts and recreate new accounts
rejoining the alliance and having the flag moved to them
once found recreating again
deleting and starting over... etc...

this tactic doesn't give alliances whose flag was captured anytime to find, locate, and set a strategy let alone attempting to run the strategy to get their flag back

it takes a maximun of 10 days of holding an enemy flag for it to reach 20% maximum points that can be gained... the use of the above tactic just doesn't give ample time to regain their flag
I might suggest as I just wrote up an edit on my post in the forums of raising the time needed to hold a flag for maximum point gain to 20 days
http://www.spacetrace.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=81385#81385


now i understand the bug.

this is especially CHEATING!

we have to prevent that, i think the easiest way will be to disallow the delete function for the flagcommander
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 Post Posted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 5:10 pm    Post subject:
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admin wrote:
now i understand the bug.

this is especially CHEATING!

we have to prevent that, i think the easiest way will be to disallow the delete function for the flagcommander


Admin, this still doesn't fix the issue... the alliances using this can have a non-FC member do this as well...

there is usually 2 members of the alliance resetting accounts... when the current FC is found the flag gets moved over to the other person resetting his account... and when he gets found then it gets bounced back to the 1st person resetting... they do use the FC proper move of the 36hrs

this is why I'm suggesting the update on the time needed

they bounce the flag back and forth between 2 members constantly resetting by use of the proper 36hr move... making it much harder for the alliance that had the flag captured to find
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 Post Posted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 5:25 pm    Post subject:
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ok, so this will fix it:

a player cannot delete himself, if:

1.
he is the FC

2.
he he is declared as next FC and will be the FC in a few hours

and 3.
you cannot move the FC to a player that is already deleted
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 Post Posted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 5:28 pm    Post subject:
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ok let me try and put this into better explanation

you have player 1 and player 2

player 1 has the flag and gets found the alliance does the proper 36hr move and now player 2 holds the flag allowing player 1 to delete and recreate a new ID, player 2 now becomes found and the alliance passes the flag back to player 1's new ID... the circle goes on and on and on...

36hrs is a day and half... they only have to do this a few times... before the 10 day mark is up... not to mention having the alliance be that had their flag captured, find locate and put an attack on the FC that has your flag in 36 hrs... really difficult

really difficult when an alliance uses this (what players are calling) 'dirty tactic'
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 Post Posted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 5:31 pm    Post subject:
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so what do we do?

20 days will not change much there

maybe raising the time needed to move the flag AND allowing the current FC to be locked into the alliance and not allowed to delete
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 Post Posted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 5:36 pm    Post subject:
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Main problem here is account deletion.Not just for flag retrieval but also for flag capture.
People tend to play with 1 account till they dont go to minus or whatever is the reason to delete and start over.And its very difficult,practically impossible to follow coords change.
What I suggest here is when you enter a new alliance there has to be a minimum of 48h +36h for flag transfer before you can be new FC.This way there is no point in deleting accounts and also when you gather intel for war that intel will stick for at least 48 h.
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 Post Posted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 5:43 pm    Post subject:
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I agree with failtrip that this option could work... having any new member be part of the alliance for 48hrs before even becoming an option to be on the FC option list... plus the additional 36hrs needed for the flag move...

great suggestion failtrip
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 Post Posted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 5:58 pm    Post subject:
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I wanted to add this to my previous post becasue its almmost off topic but here it is.

You could also elaborate on ID card,project that got to a hold.So people should care to finish accounts.Its not much but if you would get your points counted together and some other info that would have been great.So long time playing should be seen but only those accounts that people actually finished.
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 Post Posted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 6:26 pm    Post subject:
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Failtrip1 wrote:
I wanted to add this to my previous post becasue its almmost off topic but here it is.

You could also elaborate on ID card,project that got to a hold.So people should care to finish accounts.Its not much but if you would get your points counted together and some other info that would have been great.So long time playing should be seen but only those accounts that people actually finished.


to better explain this, is to add something like total points to the previous names used section on the preferences page... this would also give the players something to show for their hard work and accomplishments...
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 Post Posted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 8:42 am    Post subject:
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Failtrip1 wrote:
Main problem here is account deletion.Not just for flag retrieval but also for flag capture.
People tend to play with 1 account till they dont go to minus or whatever is the reason to delete and start over.And its very difficult,practically impossible to follow coords change.
What I suggest here is when you enter a new alliance there has to be a minimum of 48h +36h for flag transfer before you can be new FC.This way there is no point in deleting accounts and also when you gather intel for war that intel will stick for at least 48 h.


DragonLilly wrote:
I agree with failtrip that this option could work... having any new member be part of the alliance for 48hrs before even becoming an option to be on the FC option list... plus the additional 36hrs needed for the flag move...

great suggestion failtrip


what do you think about this suggestion by failtrip admin to fix the evo-out issue I was speaking of?

(please delete my previous post - I couldn't edit it)
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 Post Posted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 12:58 pm    Post subject:
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1.
we will add a minimum time to new players until they can be elected as FC:
new players have to have played at least 6 days until they can be elected as new FC

CHANGES already done:

2.
we changed the FC-transfer time from 36 h to 3 days, cause we think, it takes more time to find the FC if your flag got stolen

3. we changed the deletion process:
now you cannot delete your account when you are in an alliance. (you have to leave it first)


Last edited by admin on Thu Feb 05, 2009 9:31 am; edited 1 time in total
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 Post Posted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 6:06 pm    Post subject:
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admin wrote:
1.
we will add a minimum time to new players until they can be elected as FC:
new players have to have played at least 6 days until they can be elected as new FC

CHANGES already done:

2.
we changed the FC-transfer time from 36 h to 3 days, cause we think, it takes more time to find the FC if your flag got stolen

3. we changed the deletion process:
now you cannot delete your account when you are in an alliance. (you have to leave it first)


fantastic admin... this should take care of the issue at hand...
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 Post Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 1:35 pm    Post subject:
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i am not sure if this is fexed now?

any hints what players are doing now to undermine the CTF Game?
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 Post Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 5:51 pm    Post subject:

So far CTF is fairly "clean". I like all the changes EXCEPT the extra MP thing. It serves no purpose other than to place new "rules" and restrictions on the flag holder.

It has been demonstrated that the extra MP does not help retain the flag but it sure compromises the FC. Some is trying to get used to the new restrictions imposed from the extra MP awarded to the FC but, when the FC leaves a player, fleets lose MP at random sometimes forcing an attack to be called off or forcing return to base to load back up and reconfigure fleets.

In my case, I dropped about 2600 mp before flag left my base but I had a problem trying to configure my fleets as I saw fit to defend. I was not allowd to put any more than 5000 mp in base, fleets 1 & 2.
While trying to reconfigure to defend against a specific incoming setup, It kept getting in the way and I had to play "shell game" with all ships trying to get the setup I wanted.
It was a royal pain for sure !

Remove the extra MP option...it's impact on your fleets makes it much harder to defend and use IMO.
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