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dropping alliance members to safe the flag
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Durago
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 Post Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 12:56 am    Post subject:
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i thought everyone here was aware of the flag rules. i even posted them and got chewed out.

if an alliance steals your flag, and drops to 2 members or even 1 member, the captured flag can still be retrieved, you just cant steal a 1 or 2 man alliance.
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 Post Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 2:45 am    Post subject:
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actually T2.. the constant evo'ing out IS INDEED AN ISSUE... take the scenario I have been using this whole time 5 vs. 8... the 8 man alliance can theoretically evo out 2 members constantly... 5 of their men keeping the 5 man alliance parked in their own bases allowing the 5 man alliance no time 'to look for' the new coords of the evo'd members... and still have a man free for other stuff whatever that might be...

- not to mention bigger alliances will have an advantage as they still would have a good portion of their alliance fighting and building points for the alliance...

@ T2 also - Durago 'says' that admin fixed it and posted... I have read that thread several times and seen NO POST from admin stating it was fixed... so obviously he (durago) attempted to ABUSE the lab bug once again... and finding out THEN it was fixed...

The flag game makes the game imbalanced for new uprising new alliances vs. old school alliances (or at least those that have been around a bit)... and I'm not just speaking about the CGC either... a new newb alliance would never stand a chance...

Make the game finally fair admin and make everyone 'fight it out' for points... if your going to fix the issue with dropping to 2 members please fix the evo'ing out issue too... but I know your busy - so my suggestion is if 'most of ST' is complaining about it... just delete it then the game will be fair...

Just delete it admin... too much for you to fix and recode...
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 Post Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 3:28 am    Post subject:
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DragonLilly wrote:


- not to mention bigger alliances will have an advantage as they still would have a good portion of their alliance fighting and building points for the alliance...



this is just silly. bigger alliances are supposed to have an advantage over smaller ones. you cant expect a 4 man alliance be able to defend against a 9 man alliance (assuming they are about equally skilled). if you are a small alliance, get allies. thats part of the game and not an imbalance issue.
same goes for experienced players vs less experienced. it's only logical that experienced players have advantages.

and shut up about deleting the flag game all together. you are the only one insisting on it and it's a lousy friggin idea. its a big part of the game that you can't just erase.
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Torin
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 Post Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 3:37 am    Post subject:
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Okay we dont need to fight anymore I agree that this is a bug and should be fixed we all know it is CHEATING,
but no more fighting!!!!
the horror the horror
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Jack09
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 Post Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 4:32 am    Post subject:
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Torin wrote:
Okay we dont need to fight anymore I agree that this is a bug and should be fixed we all know it is CHEATING,
but no more fighting!!!!
the horror the horror


Hmmm, i dont remember you being involved in this, but Senor T2 and Durago are right, let it go, its a bug that needs to be fixed, and until its cowardess and CHEATING, stop doing it and just play the gam.
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Durago
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 Post Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 5:43 am    Post subject:
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DragonLilly wrote:

@ T2 also - Durago 'says' that admin fixed it and posted... I have read that thread several times and seen NO POST from admin stating it was fixed... so obviously he (durago) attempted to ABUSE the lab bug once again... and finding out THEN it was fixed...




why the f*ck would i want to sit in the same base for longer than a normal evo? you think i wanted to have my base in the same spot, where everyone knew where it is?

and this evo, you think i really enjoy being less than 4 h from the cgc? wtf is wrong with you girl. you have a messed up sense of direction.



again, this thread is about THE FLAG not the creature lab, stick to the topics and stop trying to confuse the other forum members by mixing up the thread topics. if you still have you beef about the lab, then go back to that thread and cry your river there.

the flag rules are not broken, they are being seriously abused. if not then this thread would not be so popular.
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T2
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 Post Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 4:30 pm    Post subject:
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hmmm.... I experienced the tactics that WFS/NS used with their base hitting and they were very well organized.

I could see where any alliance including TO would be extremely hard pressed to maintain any sort of offensive action when they are continually fighting to just keep their bases functioning.

I'll still maintain it's part of the game. It was a tactic that I tried to implement during my last war against TO but getting the comms between membership and organization/ timing to achieve the desired result was next to impossible.

It's something the NS/WFS coalition was able to do much to their credit.

When the PIFU and TO were battling it out, there was more players in the game and to evo back in to a remote sector of space and not be detected was certainly much harder that it is now. In them days, if you could stay hidden any more than a week without SOMEONE knowing where you lived, was a major accomplishment in itself.

Without CTF, top scoring alliances have nothing to worry about but maintaining their score lead. The fact that the higher up the score chain you are, the more attractive your flag becomes. The 20% max points that can be received IMO, could be higher as well as the 20 day time limit.
Make it a scale that goes to 100% of alliance point gain. After 20 days, there is no point in even trying to recover other than bragging rights.

The 20% max point gain leans toward your way of nothing Lily
IMO. So...with that said, the most you could lose is 20% so what really was the problem other than because you were on the receiving end rather than the victorious end.

If there were more players, do you think with a good intel network you could have recovered it with the constant bombardment of bases?

CTF plays an important part of alliance warfare by creating incentive to attack the top of the point race. The top alliances should pay strict attention to who guards their flag and how, again, IMHO.

Lilly Quoted: "The flag game makes the game imbalanced for new uprising new alliances vs. old school alliances (or at least those that have been around a bit)... and I'm not just speaking about the CGC either... a new newb alliance would never stand a chance...

Again, I disagree as a new alliances flag is worth nothing. Yea, perhaps you could grab their flag just to show them how it's done but why keep it ?
It's not worth anything !

NS grabbed a flag from a noob and held it for weeks to act as a blocker flag in attempts to lessen the chance of their own flag getting stolen but I'm not sure it works that way. It could have...never tried it. That trick also borders on unfair play but...it's not however when the alliance disbands, I hope the flag disappears as well.

Regardless, more players = more intel and more crowded galaxy and no problem for finding your flag, just challenges.


Last edited by T2 on Wed Jan 14, 2009 4:44 pm; edited 1 time in total
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DragonLilly
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 Post Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 5:03 pm    Post subject:
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T2 wrote:
hmmm.... I experienced the tactics that WFS/NS used with their base hitting and they were very well organized.

I could see where any alliance including TO would be extremely hard pressed to maintain any sort of offensive action when they are continually fighting to just keep their bases functioning.

I'll still maintain it's part of the game. It was a tactic that I tried to implement during my last war against TO but getting the comms between membership and organization/ timing to achieve the desired result was next to impossible.

It's something the NS/WFS coalition was able to do much to their credit.

When the PIFU and TO were battling it out, there was more players in the game and to evo back in to a remote sector of space and not be detected was certainly much harder that it is now. In them days, if you could stay hidden any more than a week without SOMEONE knowing where you lived, was a major accomplishment in itself.

Without CTF, top scoring alliances have nothing to worry about but maintaining their score lead. The fact that the higher up the score chain you are, the more attractive your flag becomes. The 20% max points that can be received IMO, could be higher as well as the 20 day time limit.
Make it a scale that goes to 100% of alliance point gain. After 20 days, there is no point in even trying to recover other than bragging rights.

The 20% max point gain leans toward your way of nothing Lily
IMO. So...with that said, the most you could lose is 20% so what really was the problem other than because you were on the receiving end rather than the victorious end.

If there were more players, do you think with a good intel network you could have recovered it with the constant bombardment of bases?

CTF plays an important part of alliance warfare by creating incentive to attack the top of the point race. The top alliances should pay strict attention to who guards their flag and how, again, IMHO.

Lilly Quoted: "The flag game makes the game imbalanced for new uprising new alliances vs. old school alliances (or at least those that have been around a bit)... and I'm not just speaking about the CGC either... a new newb alliance would never stand a chance...

Again, I disagree as a new alliances flag is worth nothing. Yea, perhaps you could grab their flag just to show them how it's done but why keep it ?
It's not worth anything !

NS grabbed a flag from a noob and held it for weeks to act as a blocker flag in attempts to lessen the chance of their own flag getting stolen but I'm not sure it works that way. It could have...never tried it. That trick also borders on unfair play but...it's not however when the alliance disbands, I hope the flag disappears as well.

Regardless, more players = more intel and more crowded galaxy and no problem for finding your flag, just challenges.


I can kind of see where you are coming from with the exception of a few points...

The maximum time needed to hold a flag to reach 20% of the alliance MEMBER score is 10 days, and with a shrinking player count it would be highly easy for an alliance to capture a flag and evo out members to keep it hidden... very easy for a bigger alliance to do vs. a smaller alliance. if the small alliance used this tactic they would never get anywhere because noone would be teched enough to fight... the larger alliances meanwhile could easily use this tactic to their advantage and still have a surplus of members to fight... and with the maximum 10 day hold that doesn't give a small alliance very much time to locate and track down evo'd members within such a small player based galaxy... you could have a great intel group but by the time you strike with alliance invaders and then attempt to find the evo'd player that is holding your flag... the 10 day mark is up...

if the flag capture game is kept and the evo'ing out issue doesn't have anything done to it the time for the maximum point gain should be raised... allowing the alliance that had their flag capture a chance to be able to locate where it is and to locate the coords of the player holding it...

I still see too much work for the admin to fix this issue as I know how much coding goes into such a small game detail... I'm still suggesting to admin - if they want to cry about the use of the dropping to 2 tactic - just delete it... its not like this is your only job in the real world...

T2 wrote:
NS grabbed a flag from a noob and held it for weeks to act as a blocker flag in attempts to lessen the chance of their own flag getting stolen but I'm not sure it works that way. It could have...never tried it. That trick also borders on unfair play but...it's not however when the alliance disbands, I hope the flag disappears as well.


The correct formula for a flag capture is:

example: NS holds WFS's flag...

- CGC (or any other alliance besides WFS) attacks NS's FC - they will gain the NS flag first

- WFS attacks NS's FC- they will retrieve their own flag first

so holding a noob flag doesn't work to protect your own...


Last edited by DragonLilly on Wed Jan 14, 2009 5:36 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Jack09
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 Post Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 5:07 pm    Post subject:
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CRY? You were the one who got all bitchy when this topic was brought up, i think the admin needs to fix the evoing out thing, make it a real capture the flag, no hiding, you can move between bases hide it out in the middle of nowhere, but just not evo so you ccant find it, if the admin could make this game he sure as hell can fix it, goodluck ADMIN, if you try to fix this bug
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 Post Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 5:16 pm    Post subject:
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Jack09 wrote:
i think the admin needs to fix the evoing out thing


OMG did Jack just AGREE with Lilly about something... MARK THIS ON THE CALENDAR!!
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 Post Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 6:35 pm    Post subject:
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Lilly Wrote : " The maximum time needed to hold a flag to reach 20% of the alliance MEMBER score is 10 days, and with a shrinking player count it would be highly easy for an alliance to capture a flag and evo out members to keep it hidden... very easy for a bigger alliance to do vs. a smaller alliance. if the small alliance used this tactic they would never get anywhere because noone would be teched enough to fight... the larger alliances meanwhile could easily use this tactic to their advantage and still have a surplus of members to fight... and with the maximum 10 day hold that doesn't give a small alliance very much time to locate and track down evo'd members within such a small player based galaxy... you could have a great intel group but by the time you strike with alliance invaders and then attempt to find the evo'd player that is holding your flag... the 10 day mark is up... "

-------------------------------
I beg your pardon... I thought the time was 20 days....about 1%/day but I'm probably wrong.
Regardless of the finer points I see your point as well. 4 guys trying to find and recapture their flag back against a 8 man alliance is a tough mission even if you know where it is.
This comes back to the size of the alliance thing again. A small alliance is disadvantaged over a large alliance ....certainly acknowledged and agreed upon but, with that said, the game is biased in favor of large alliances.
With large alliances though comes a new set of troubles in organization, spies, different time zone co-ordination and the list goes on. Only a well organized alliance can maintain order and coordination to be really effective or they can lose as much to their weaker players as they make from their stronger players or their duo hit and run tactics.


One of TO's strength's among others was their close awareness of what everyone in their alliance was doing. They were all well seasoned players as well. They usually only show up when their player base can devote a few weeks to dedicated battle with constant logging in and out. This is a must to be sucessful as well. It don't take a lot of time but you can't let much more than 4 hrs slip by without logging in to check your incommings with serious play.

Not every alliance who tries the evo out trick if they hold a flag will be successful either. It still takes some luck on their part to remain hidden for any length of time.

Let's say the point gain / day on a captured flag was only 1 % rather than the 2% you mention. Would it help if it was only 1% ? How 'bout 0.5% then it would take 40 days to get 20% of the other alliances score ?

Fool with these numbers and see if something more suitable could be talked about that could make it "more fair" but the fact remains bigger alliances have bigger advantage.
Playing single or in 2 man alliance is your other option then you are immune to CTF.
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 Post Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 8:39 pm    Post subject:
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Couldn't you just have no-one evo-ing out or leaving an alliance if the alliance is holding another alliance's flag, unless it's by dominion or inactivity? You could also have no-one entering... And the flag change stays the same, with timers making the flag kept for at least 36 hours or whatever it is. Capture-the-flag is a good idea, it just needs to be made to work.
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 Post Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 11:22 pm    Post subject:
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glad to see, that this thread turned to be a real discussion, but to get a clear result would be nice to see a comment of the admin here.
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 Post Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 11:27 pm    Post subject:
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keep in mind the problem was the dropping of members to 2 BEFORE the flag is owned by another alliance (to safe the flag)!

T2 wrote:
Dropping to less than 3 players or dropping membership by 50 % ( or whatever number is fair) automatically means flag goes back to the original owners.
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 Post Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 3:55 am    Post subject: Re: Flag Game
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Breon wrote:
Heres a suggestion for the alliances that want to play this game reward them for stealing a flag and those alliances that dont want to play the flag game dont give me them a flag or give them them ability to steal another alliances flag. Sounds like most wanna play flag game what Im hearing so make it a default at alliance creation with the ability to be unchecked and should not be changed once the alliance is created.
this will be a new topic
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 Post Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 3:57 am    Post subject: Re: dropping alliance members to safe the flag
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T2 wrote:

Admin...please repair and while you are at it, take a look at the evolutionary "dorian gray" that currently exists while using the creature lab.
i will
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 Post Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 3:58 am    Post subject: Re: dropping alliance members to safe the flag
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Durago wrote:

as stated in that lab thread, admin already said they fixed whatever it was. dont you people ever read stuff after you gripe about it? it is boring me too, and as usual it is a diversionary tactic to remove the attention from the topic at hand. cheats often do that so you forget about what they are doing.
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 Post Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 3:59 am    Post subject:
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DragonLilly wrote:
rofl... you abused that bug because you knew about it and never reported it... I found it by mistake and didn't abuse it - I reported it immediately unlike you... and unlike dropping to 2 members I am not the first alliance to use this tactic... why wasn't it complained about and fixed before when TO used this???

and @ jov - I never seen an admin post about the issue resolved with the lab thread... you posted it was fixed... did you try it again and failed is that why you know it was fixed???
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 Post Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 3:59 am    Post subject:
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T2 wrote:
The constant evo'ing out is not the problem. The team who's flag is captured always gets an update of who actually holds their flag.

If they have a good intel network and the name of the holder is already known, where is the problem ?
There is a time limit that a player must hold the flag before it gets transfered again (36 hrs if memore serves)
If they don't ... well ... It $ucks to be them.


I did not realize TO had to submit to some of the same blatant bugs that they were so quick to accuse me and the PIFU of doing. I remember the Fly & Die abuse for 1 and I won't even get into some of the others.


I can draw up all kinds of posts from yester year that states that taking advantage of a bug is cheating when PIFU did it.
I guess the same holds true when the shoe is on the other foot.

As a matter of fact, I think it used to be very prevelant in
ST that little known bugs were used to the advantage of some team or another.

So ... ADMIN ... PLEASE FIX THE BUG AND LEAVE THE FLAG GAME AS IT IS. WHEN WORKING,...IT WORKS JUST FINE.

And Durango... thanks for so politely pointing out the other bug was repaired.
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 Post Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 4:01 am    Post subject:

First of all:

The Capture The Flag Game WILL STAY!

we will fix the evo out-Bug and untill then this was the best comments so far:

Jack09 wrote:
Torin wrote:
Okay we dont need to fight anymore I agree that this is a bug and should be fixed we all know it is CHEATING,
but no more fighting!!!!
the horror the horror


Hmmm, i dont remember you being involved in this, but Senor T2 and Durago are right, let it go, its a bug that needs to be fixed, and until its cowardess and CHEATING, stop doing it and just play the game.
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