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dropping alliance members to safe the flag
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Marth Diro
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 Post Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 9:13 am    Post subject: dropping alliance members to safe the flag
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well, it's not a real bug, but this serious problem harms the game like one.
the malicious tactics to drop the ally member number to 2 when the flag is in danger makes the flag capture part of this game senseless.
please, ADMIN, think about and try to fix this problem. for sure you cannot forbid dropping alliance members, but a fair solution could be a similar time delay like for the flag changing (1,5 days) to use for dropping of 3 members to 2 members.
the other solution would be to delete the flag capturing part from the whole game.
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 Post Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 9:17 am    Post subject: Re: dropping alliance members to safe the flag
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Marth Diro wrote:
well, it's not a real bug, but this serious problem harms the game like one.
the malicious tactics to drop the ally member number to 2 when the flag is in danger makes the flag capture part of this game senseless.
please, ADMIN, think about and try to fix this problem. for sure you cannot forbid dropping alliance members, but a fair solution could be a similar time delay like for the flag changing (1,5 days) to use for dropping of 3 members to 2 members.
the other solution would be to delete the flag capturing part from the whole game.


ok true, but this brings up another point... when an 8 or 9 man alliance takes on a 5 man alliance... and their plan is to keep one player constantly evo'ing out to constantly move their flag to a new location... this makes it kinda rough for the underdogs... hence the use of the dropping to 2 tactic... I think the Flag Capture game should just be deleted all together...
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 Post Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 9:38 am    Post subject:
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Senor wrote:
imho admin should do something about that dropping to two to save your flag bug. yes, i think its a bug and was not intended to be used as it it used currently. its just one more thing that adds to the "superiority of the elite" in spacetrace with little chance for any newb alliance to do anything because there are so many loopholes and details they have to know when facing a stronger alliance. id suggest the alliance keeps the ability to lose a flag for at least 12 hrs after dropping to 2.


Again how is a small alliance with a flag supposed to defend themselves against a larger alliance??? Let's say a 4 vs 9 alliance... lets say everyone is running 3 fleets a piece... the small alliance is defending their flag with 12 fleets defending against 27 fleets... hmmm... I see a bit of imbalance... again hence the usage of the dropping to 2 tactic...

not to mention the issue of alliances 'rotating' out players (as in resetting over and over) to move the flag to a new location...

why not fight for your points instead of the lazy man's way of stealing a flag... ALSO the Flag capture game hurts very active alliances as their member score rises rather quickly... I feel if you want to win do it the way you should and fight for your points...

I see too many issues arising with the flag capture game... my vote sticks - just get rid of it...
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 Post Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 11:16 am    Post subject:
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1. we dont have communism. smaller alliances are supposed to be weaker than big ones. thats one of admins intentions with the game - to urge the creation of bigger alliances.
2. hardly ever are all members of an alliance invovlved in capturing the flag. usually its a quick surprise attack with max 3 allies.
3. capturing the flag is not a lazy mans way. dropping to 2 in order to avoid getting it back is however.

the flag game is good basically, its just broken right now by the formentioned method.
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Marth Diro
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 Post Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 11:22 am    Post subject:
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NO! to delete the flag capturing would make the game less interesting!
and lilly, the flag capturing is no lasy way, it's rather a more tactically way to fight for points in comparison with simple battles. flag capturing grades up the game!
would be a pity to play ST without flag capturing.

again i'm asking the ADMIN to fix the "bug":
- via delay on member drop from 2 to 3
- or by allowing the flag stealing for some time after dropping to 2 members.
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Marth Diro
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 Post Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 11:30 am    Post subject:
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senor is right, if you're outnumbered but want to fight a bigger alliance, look for new members or even better, form a coalition with another alliance. communication to find an alliance, members for your alliance, and to find allied alliances to go into a war is a basic thing in this game!
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 Post Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 3:37 pm    Post subject:
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I agree that it would be good to make it impossible to drop to two members to save your flag. But since these tactics have come up, I have also read and it has been posted on the forum about the possibility to delete an account and rejoin your alliance and in that way to make it harder for an alliance to get there flag back. That should then too be taken care of somehow. And I think senor is right about if you are weaker that you need to get an ally. If you are being picked on post it on the forum. Lilly you found WFS as a good ally, and you almost got into a war because of you fighting PSD( the compained on the forum).
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DragonLilly
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 Post Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 6:13 pm    Post subject:
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Marth Diro wrote:
senor is right, if you're outnumbered but want to fight a bigger alliance, look for new members or even better, form a coalition with another alliance. communication to find an alliance, members for your alliance, and to find allied alliances to go into a war is a basic thing in this game!


we got targeted by NS due to our activity levels... read below...

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ok so I 'kind of' hear all of your points... a small new alliance looks for new members... well we all know new members are hard to come by... when a small new alliance looks for new players the active big alliance of vets will pick on the weakest members (the new members) of the smaller alliance not giving them a chance...

The CGC is by far the most active alliance putting us automatically at a target for flag capture because our member score shoots way up... no matter what our ingame alliance score...

where is the fairness of the flag capture game...

I thought you would want to encourage activity within this game, but the flag capture game is an imbalance for new alliances... like the CGC...

its not the CGC's fault that they decided to be really active and our alliance member score shot up... next thing we know as a new alliance we have an attack of 8 vets on us, meanwhile we are sitting with 5 members (yes we had 8 at one point too, but as you see newbies usually don't last during a war)

not to mention the issue of the constant evo'ing out members to hide the flag once captured...

my point is, a small active new alliance doesn't seem to have a chance of defending itself against an alliance of 8 vets... new members would still be an issue as they are hard to come by around here and not to mention to find a good active one that won't be targeted as a weak link is darn near impossible...
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DragonLilly
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 Post Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 6:35 pm    Post subject:
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not to mention that noone complained about this when the mighty TO used this tactic... meanwhile they had plenty of members to protect their flag and defend it...
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Breon
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 Post Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 6:35 pm    Post subject: Flag Game
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Well I think it comes down to personal preference. Personally I do not like the flag game and it should be treated like the creature lab(an option). I understand its not fair for alliances that wanna play the flag game. Heres a suggestion for the alliances that want to play this game reward them for stealing a flag and those alliances that dont want to play the flag game dont give me them a flag or give them them ability to steal another alliances flag. Sounds like most wanna play flag game what Im hearing so make it a default at alliance creation with the ability to be unchecked and should not be changed once the alliance is created.
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Marth Diro
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 Post Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 7:16 pm    Post subject:
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stop talking that crap, lilly! it's a mix of fiction and nonsense, like always.

1. we increased our member number from 5 to 8, cause your alliance outnumbered us in war time (you told that you had 8 members, too).
2. the vets you're talking from is pure fiction, the 3 new members in these days were new players (real noobs), additionally i'm not a vet, may something in between noob and vet.
3. your alliance became no. 1 in points, at least that moment your ally is not a bulk of noobs (not to talk about shades membership in your ally, or does he count as a noob, too?)
4. to care of a flag defense is a good way to bring balance into the game, or would anyone play for example chess without attacking the king??? you want to gain points by attacking various players, but don't like to be a target yourself!? as no. 1 in points!?

THE FLAG PROBLEM HAS TO BE FIXED, NO CHOICE.

and lilly, many players complained about this when TO used this malicious tactics! search through the forum if you want! it was the time of a huge coalition against TO (including WFS btw) all the ships of the TO FC were destroyed by our anti-TO-coalition, then TO used the member dropping to not to loose their flag. we all were angry, but didn't expect that this would be done again. now all ST players see, that this abusing member dropping should be fixed, cause the whole game is disbalanced now.
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 Post Posted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 3:07 am    Post subject:
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i say that any real alliance that must drop players to hide their flag is CHEATING.

that is the most lame way to play a game. if you are such a good alliance guarding the flag is part of the action. dropping members with the intent of hiding the flag is abuse of the system. the reason the 2 man alliance has no flag was so people could not abuse the flags.


--------------------

started with 6 hq invaders, and some made it thru to the end of the battle. can anyone explain why the flag was not there, besides a 2 man alliance. my base was hit soon after by a known 3rd cgc member, the other 2 were confirmed at the time of this battle. meaning i had battles with 3 of them today

your losses:
class 1:
troopers:
100 flag-trooper
class 2:
ships:
3 empty HQ invader
8 troikas
30 troika modules
class 3:
2 cruisers

ground battle:
your liberation troopers: 260 - enemy defenders: 100
your flag-trooper enters the enemy base and infiltrates into the flagstation

---------

btw, in reguards to a "small realitivly new alliance struggling to guard the flag" cry a frickin river, it is one excuse after another, one complaint against other after another.

my first evo, 3 of us were getting pounded on by the toc, pounded on daily by them, then poof off went our flag, we fought like hell to get it back, did, stole theirs, they got it back and we stole it again. kept them and us having a big ol great battle for it.

i would rather be known for that than to be an alliance that is now know as the Cheat Gripe Cry alliance



and the flag game is totally optional, don't have 3 members ever and you wont need to guard a flag. simple rules of the flag.
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Last edited by Durago on Tue Jan 13, 2009 4:25 am; edited 5 times in total
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DragonLilly
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 Post Posted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 5:17 am    Post subject:
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Marth Diro wrote:
stop talking that crap, lilly! it's a mix of fiction and nonsense, like always.

1. we increased our member number from 5 to 8, cause your alliance outnumbered us in war time (you told that you had 8 members, too).
2. the vets you're talking from is pure fiction, the 3 new members in these days were new players (real noobs), additionally i'm not a vet, may something in between noob and vet.
3. your alliance became no. 1 in points, at least that moment your ally is not a bulk of noobs (not to talk about shades membership in your ally, or does he count as a noob, too?)
4. to care of a flag defense is a good way to bring balance into the game, or would anyone play for example chess without attacking the king??? you want to gain points by attacking various players, but don't like to be a target yourself!? as no. 1 in points!?

THE FLAG PROBLEM HAS TO BE FIXED, NO CHOICE.

and lilly, many players complained about this when TO used this malicious tactics! search through the forum if you want! it was the time of a huge coalition against TO (including WFS btw) all the ships of the TO FC were destroyed by our anti-TO-coalition, then TO used the member dropping to not to loose their flag. we all were angry, but didn't expect that this would be done again. now all ST players see, that this abusing member dropping should be fixed, cause the whole game is disbalanced now.


let me correct you on a few things...

1/2/3. NS started the war with the an attempted CGC flag capture... and at that time we had 5 members... only after this attempt we raised our numbers to 8 with picking up 3 newbies... and yes NEW to the game... next thing we know you had 8 members... including those from the newb training alliance that you all assisted with... so yes you might have had 3 newbies... which I still highly doubt... as I only know of one that was considered first evo... the other 7 had been around alot longer then most of the members of the CGC... there is only one within the CGC that can be officially considered a vet by your terms... Shade was only with the CGC for a short time... he actually was gone by the time of our war... and when he was with us he was only with us for about 10 days at the maximum before RL pulled him away again...
4. you completely misread me... our activity levels boosted our member score (not our alliance score) and that is what made us the target of NS...

The flag capture game is very imbalanced giving those that know this game well a major advantage, don't we want this game to grow??? if the flag capture game stays this will give the more experienced players/alliances HUGE advantages... I thought this game was about making it just as fair for a newbie to join as a vet to play this... hence the evo/era...

and everyone was like well just pick up members... hmmm... what members as the count is failing fast...

either make it option at the beginning of an alliance creation/era to either play the flag game or not (can't be changed until end of era) or get rid of it... it's highly imbalanced for ST as new members and new alliances won't ever have a chance...

Durago wrote:
i say that any real alliance that must drop players to hide their flag is CHEATING.


and to you sir... I wouldn't even talk about cheating as you to also abused a bug known only to you... so you definitely don't have room to talk

Jack09 wrote:
Hmmm im to new to give reasons, could have been a glitch, bug, or something, but im with you that dropping members is cheating, and yes the drop member stuff is ***, and the cgc love it, thats how they get their points.


and to the 'I think I know it all' newbie... you don't get points from dropping an alliance down to 2 to protect your flag...
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 Post Posted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 6:41 am    Post subject: Re: dropping alliance members to safe the flag
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Marth Diro wrote:
well, it's not a real bug, but this serious problem harms the game like one.


I believe it is a real bug.
Been a few years since i tried it but an alliance could not drop to less than 3 players if you held an enemy flag. You could not steal a flag or have yours stolen with less than 3 alliance members.
Admin...please repair and while you are at it, take a look at the evolutionary "dorian gray" that currently exists while using the creature lab.

The drama is starting to get boring for me. Time for a new "crisis" to unfold.
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 Post Posted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 6:48 am    Post subject:
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Of course you dont dick face, you read it wrong, you guys like to hide and when you outnumber someone attack them, or if you do fight 1v1 its against a noob, and i never said i new it all your dumbfuck, maybe instead of skimming you should read, its says "Hmmm im to new to give reasons, could have been a glitch, bug, or something" and as youve stated before a lot of bugs have been in this game, and so what if Durago abused a bug, all it did was stall his evo, and isnt ironic how many "BUGS" youve run into.
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 Post Posted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 7:05 am    Post subject: Re: dropping alliance members to safe the flag
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T2 wrote:
Marth Diro wrote:
well, it's not a real bug, but this serious problem harms the game like one.


I believe it is a real bug.
Been a few years since i tried it but an alliance could not drop to less than 3 players if you held an enemy flag. You could not steal a flag or have yours stolen with less than 3 alliance members.
Admin...please repair and while you are at it, take a look at the evolutionary "dorian gray" that currently exists while using the creature lab.

The drama is starting to get boring for me. Time for a new "crisis" to unfold.


as stated in that lab thread, admin already said they fixed whatever it was. dont you people ever read stuff after you gripe about it? it is boring me too, and as usual it is a diversionary tactic to remove the attention from the topic at hand. cheats often do that so you forget about what they are doing.
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 Post Posted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 11:32 pm    Post subject:
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everyone with a healthy set of brains understands what the the spirit of this game is. The-dropping-back-to-two tactic is 100% in conflict with what this game is meant to be. So its a bug and it should be fixed. Admin: hurry

thnx
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 Post Posted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 11:53 pm    Post subject:
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mjx1 wrote:
[

this also because perhaps it was like 20-30 against 10 you can't really blaim them for using a dodgy but currently legal tactic when your gang bashing their base every day of the week


what are you talking about? a tactic like that is against the spirit and the (unwritten) rules of the game. So numbers are irrelevant (and incorrect btw)

its sucks and it sucked and it will suck if admin doesnt hurry
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 Post Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 12:14 am    Post subject:
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mjx1 wrote:
Jack09 wrote:
DragonLilly wrote:
rofl... you abused that bug because you knew about it and never reported it... I found it by mistake and didn't abuse it - I reported it immediately unlike you... and unlike dropping to 2 members I am not the first alliance to use this tactic... why wasn't it complained about and fixed before when TO used this???

and @ jov - I never seen an admin post about the issue resolved with the lab thread... you posted it was fixed... did you try it again and failed is that why you know it was fixed???


It wasnt complained about because TO arent a bunch winers and cowards like you, at least they dont *** about everything.


this also because perhaps it was like 20-30 against 10 you can't really blaim them for using a dodgy but currently legal tactic when your gang bashing their base every day of the week


I'm not really sure if your referring to the CGC or TO with this comment... but either way the statement is true and I'm glad someone sees why either alliance did it...

still doesn't change the fact that there is also another issue related to this issue... the issue of constantly evo'ing out members to hide your flag or a captured flag making it harder for an enemy to gain or regain...

I still think that the flag capture game should just be deleted as I am sure admin doesn't want to spend days or weeks recoding it all...
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 Post Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 12:39 am    Post subject:

The constant evo'ing out is not the problem. The team who's flag is captured always gets an update of who actually holds their flag.

If they have a good intel network and the name of the holder is already known, where is the problem ?
There is a time limit that a player must hold the flag before it gets transfered again (36 hrs if memore serves)
If they don't ... well ... It $ucks to be them.


I did not realize TO had to submit to some of the same blatant bugs that they were so quick to accuse me and the PIFU of doing. I remember the Fly & Die abuse for 1 and I won't even get into some of the others.


I can draw up all kinds of posts from yester year that states that taking advantage of a bug is cheating when PIFU did it.
I guess the same holds true when the shoe is on the other foot.

As a matter of fact, I think it used to be very prevelant in
ST that little known bugs were used to the advantage of some team or another.

So ... ADMIN ... PLEASE FIX THE BUG AND LEAVE THE FLAG GAME AS IT IS. WHEN WORKING,...IT WORKS JUST FINE.

And Durango... thanks for so politely pointing out the other bug was repaired.
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