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Explain this battle report...is it a bug?


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Shan
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 Post Posted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 4:01 pm    Post subject: Explain this battle report...is it a bug?
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I had hoped to do a quite simple attack to try and target a defensive array and a TWG. I only sent a few class 3 ships (inc. a plasma gunship)against a minimal defense which had only a 1,1,1 defense i.e. 1 ship in class 3.

I just got the following battle report:


2006-09-11 13:44:47
your fleet 1 fights against the base from SpaceExplorer of Azielprufl at 450/505/12
11.09 13:34:16 - your fleet arrived

yours: 22 ships
class 3:
14 cruisers (100/100, 60 MP)
6 cloud cruisers (50/100, 80 MP)
1 plasma gunship (0/100, 92 MP)
class 4:
1 mothership (0/1000, 320 MP)

enemy: 4 ships
class 1:
1 fighter (1/1, 1 MP)
class 2:
1 holo-clone-ship (0/5, 12 MP)
class 3:
1 cruiser (100/100, 60 MP)
class 4:
1 mothership (0/1000, 320 MP)
1 transwarp-network (0/100, 0 MP)
1 defensive array (0/500, 0 MP)
1 research center (0/3500, 0 MP)
1 shipyard (0/3500, 0 MP)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
your class 3 vs enemy class 1: V
enemy:
1 fighter
you:
14 cruisers
6 cloud cruisers
1 plasma gunship


1 plasma gun locks on one target and kills 1 ship
1 clouding cruiser reduced visibility of 4 ships
1 cloud cruiser vs 1 fighter


1 fighter vs 1 plasma gunship


losses:
enemy :
1 fighter
1 cruiser
you :
-
score in this subbattle: 61

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
your class 3 vs enemy class 2: V
enemy:
1 holo-clone-ship
you:
14 cruisers
6 cloud cruisers
1 plasma gunship


1 clouding cruiser reduced visibility of 4 ships
1 cloud cruiser vs 1 holo-clone-ship


1 plasma gun locks on one target and kills 1 ship
1 clone-ship clones plasma gunship


losses:
enemy :
1 holo-clone-ship
you :
1 plasma gunship
score in this subbattle: -80

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
your class 3 vs enemy class 3: V
enemy:
you:
14 cruisers
6 cloud cruisers

<<<On battle report screen there was an empty blue and red box.>>>


losses:
enemy :
-
you :
-
score in this subbattle: 0

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

your class 4 vs enemy class 4: V
enemy:
1 mothership
1 shipyard
1 research center
1 transwarp-network
1 defensive array
you:
1 mothership


1 defensive array defends in class 3: 1 ship

<<<There should have been nothing to defend in the class 3 sub battle>>>


losses:
enemy :
-
you :
1 cloud cruiser
score in this subbattle: -80

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
summary:
enemy losses:
class 1:
1 fighter
class 2:
1 holo-clone-ship
class 3:
1 cruiser

your losses:
class 3:
1 plasma gunship
1 cloud cruiser

score: -99


_____________________________________________________________



What I don't get is the class three sub-battle. From what I know it should not have taken place because the enemy does not have any class 3s (were taken out in earlier sub-battles) shouldn't this mean that my class three's when they come to battle should automatically attack the enemy class 4 i.e. the mothership/def-aray/TWG, since nothing to attack in class 3.

This however did not happen. My class 3 fought 0 enemy class 3 ships and lost a ship as well from the def-array.

Can anyone shed any light on this or is this a bug?
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Knight of Truth
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 Post Posted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 4:53 pm    Post subject:
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it goes like this. The c3 subbatle starts, and the your c3 sees he doesnt have any, so they go to c4. But, in this case, when the subbatle started, the def array attacked the cruisers. this is normal. at least i think so.
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Shan
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 Post Posted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 4:54 pm    Post subject:
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Knight of Truth wrote:
it goes like this. The c3 subbatle starts, and the your c3 sees he doesnt have any, so they go to c4. But, in this case, when the subbatle started, the def array attacked the cruisers. this is normal. at least i think so.


That would be fine but I still had 14 cruisers which should have attacked class 4 but they didn't. That's the bug I think.
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Failtrip1
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 Post Posted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 5:07 pm    Post subject:
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I had this happen also.And its prolly couse of your plasma destroying his c3.So basicly IMO what happens is that with plasmas you cant open a c3 hole and you will fight his c3 altough his c3 is empty.Dunno if its a bug or its supposed to be that way but so far game works this way.
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al12
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 Post Posted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 5:11 pm    Post subject:
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what i think that happend is that when youre plasma gun targeted my cruiser and destroid it a c3 three ships had destroid a class 3 ship, there for youre class 3 ships didn't go on attacking my class 4 ships.
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Failtrip1
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 Post Posted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 5:17 pm    Post subject:
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al12
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 Post Posted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 5:22 pm    Post subject:
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no, what happend was that i read this before you posted, started writing and then found out you posted before me.
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Rubens
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 Post Posted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 5:39 pm    Post subject:
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What KoT(Knight of Truth) says is meaningless so plz dont pay atenttion
@KoT next time you want to help, at least know of what the heck are you talking about.

What Failtrip says is, indeed right, if he allows me i will explain it in other way.

Its like this, the battle started with the enemy having c3 and you attacked him with plasmagunship at the subbattle of class 1 which mean that you also did the subbattle of class 3.

I wasnt agree with that, but it has worked like that for ever, so there is no bug.
And you c3 ship lost was in the c4 vs c4, even so, is better, of your c3 would fight vs enemy's c4 you would lost even more points.

I cant find where( i will apreciate someone who find it) but there is a post where the admin explains it. Hope my explanation worked
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DavAlan
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 Post Posted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 6:19 pm    Post subject:
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The class 3 vs. class 3 was a "void sub-battle". This occurs if a class that was occupied gets taken out by a lower sub-battle 1st.
This is probably neccessary to ensure a 1 1 1 base defense holds off a single fleet no matter what the composition.

In the c4 vs c4 subattle the DA took it's turn at your ms and did its usual targeting of all c1 to c3 but, since you only had c3 then, it did it's job on that by killing a cloud cruiser.
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Shan
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 Post Posted: Tue Sep 12, 2006 9:18 am    Post subject:
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Rubens wrote:
Its like this, the battle started with the enemy having c3 and you attacked him with plasmagunship at the subbattle of class 1 which mean that you also did the subbattle of class 3.

I wasnt agree with that, but it has worked like that for ever, so there is no bug.


Mmm, that seems kinda weird to say the class 3 sub-battle had already taken place in class 1 sub-battle then have a second class 3 sub-battle later with no ships in enemy fleet!

DavAlan wrote:
The class 3 vs. class 3 was a "void sub-battle". This occurs if a class that was occupied gets taken out by a lower sub-battle 1st.
This is probably neccessary to ensure a 1 1 1 base defense holds off a single fleet no matter what the composition.


That means that the only way a class 3 can attack class 4 in the same battle (i.e. without using 2 fleets) is if class 1/2 takes out class 3 first, so long as the enemy has no class 1/2. Is that correct?

Or can it be that if class 1/2 take out class 3 (when enemy class 1/2 are present) before class 3 sub-battle, will class 3 attack class 4?

.....But to do this there are no specific long range class 1/2 ships which target class 3 in the game at present.
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DavAlan
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 Post Posted: Tue Sep 12, 2006 3:57 pm    Post subject:
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Shan wrote:
Rubens wrote:
Its like this, the battle started with the enemy having c3 and you attacked him with plasmagunship at the subbattle of class 1 which mean that you also did the subbattle of class 3.

I wasnt agree with that, but it has worked like that for ever, so there is no bug.


Mmm, that seems kinda weird to say the class 3 sub-battle had already taken place in class 1 sub-battle then have a second class 3 sub-battle later with no ships in enemy fleet!

DavAlan wrote:
The class 3 vs. class 3 was a "void sub-battle". This occurs if a class that was occupied gets taken out by a lower sub-battle 1st.
This is probably neccessary to ensure a 1 1 1 base defense holds off a single fleet no matter what the composition.


That means that the only way a class 3 can attack class 4 in the same battle (i.e. without using 2 fleets) is if class 1/2 takes out class 3 first, so long as the enemy has no class 1/2. Is that correct?

Or can it be that if class 1/2 take out class 3 (when enemy class 1/2 are present) before class 3 sub-battle, will class 3 attack class 4?

.....But to do this there are no specific long range class 1/2 ships which target class 3 in the game at present.


The missle launcher is a c2 that targets c3 but if all classes 1 to 3 are occupied in the target stack, hitting the c4 using one fleet is impossible as yoiu will get "void sub-battles" in the classes you have taken out with lower sub-battles.
Other than ensureing the effectivemess of a 1 1 1 base defense will keep a single fleet off you c4 (assuming again, c1 to c3 occupied and unless you are using a mantis which targets all c4 in both fleets except sy and rc).
This makes it neccessary to use more that one fleet when hitting a base 1 1 1 defense which may seem a bit of a hassle unless it is your base gettiing hit

Now assumming that base was missing the e3.....your c1 wouuld have hit the c1, c2 vs c2 and c3 vs 34 since the c3 was unoccupied at the start of the battle.

Note if you ever hit a full fleet with a myc swank killing all c1 to c3 in the 1st two sub-battles you will also get this "voiid sub-battle" (ie. 12 cruisers in your c3 WILL not take out the ms and mr too as that battle will not occur)

Just use more that one fleet if youir targets have all classes occupied and you want to hit c4.
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"Destruction leads to a very rough road
But it also breeds creation
And earthquakes are to a girl's guitar
They are just another good vibration
And tidal waves couldn't save the world
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YlUKcNNmywk
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Last edited by DavAlan on Tue Sep 12, 2006 4:08 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Shan
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 Post Posted: Tue Sep 12, 2006 4:07 pm    Post subject:
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That's annoying because before I had been using multiple fleets but in my present evo I was trying to set my fleets up so they can attack alone.
DavAlan wrote:

The missle launcher is a c2 that targets c3


It does target them but not as a long range hit. They create a missile in your class 3 and do not attack class three in class 2 sub-battle.

It's the reason I created the cruiser saboteur. I'll bump up the tec-server post so u can have a look at it again. It got a few positive posts. Cruiser saboteur acts directly attacking class 3 without creating missile.
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DavAlan
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 Post Posted: Tue Sep 12, 2006 4:11 pm    Post subject:
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Shan wrote:
That's annoying because before I had been using multiple fleets but in my present evo I was trying to set my fleets up so they can attack alone.
DavAlan wrote:

The missle launcher is a c2 that targets c3


It does target them but not as a long range hit. They create a missile in your class 3 and do not attack class three in class 2 sub-battle.

It's the reason I created the cruiser saboteur. I'll bump up the tec-server post so u can have a look at it again. It got a few positive posts. Cruiser saboteur acts directly attacking class 3 without creating missile.


There was also a c1 on a prewarp for a while, a 3mp c1 that does 4 damage to a c3 aka the Cerberus Fighter
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"Destruction leads to a very rough road
But it also breeds creation
And earthquakes are to a girl's guitar
They are just another good vibration
And tidal waves couldn't save the world
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Shan
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 Post Posted: Tue Sep 12, 2006 4:16 pm    Post subject:
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True the ceberus fighter (human tec) is similar but the I made the cruiser saboteuor to be used by Kazulu and mycilliod who do not have anti-swank ships and also it has the jamming possibility.

see link

http://www.spacetrace.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5514
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Rubens
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 Post Posted: Tue Sep 12, 2006 5:52 pm    Post subject:
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Exactly...this could be a sticky at newbie help, its important for noobs that uses swank.

As i said... it takes 2 subbattles, but in the first one you are the only one attacking,(in your case with the plasma gunship) so as the sub battle already started it dosnt matter if you destroy the whole c3 you can attack the c4. You just make the c3 vs c3 subbattle before (like 20 crusiers vs 20 crusiers) and you cant attack the class 4.
Exactly like davalan says...about the rest, forgeting about the counter ships, a cerberus is better than a missile in damage made. Remembering that a missile is usefull because works as a distractor too, but nothing else, sometimes you could use 6 missile launchers but not destroy a cruiser (imagine how...)
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Connor McCloud
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 Post Posted: Tue Sep 12, 2006 7:05 pm    Post subject:
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http://www.spacetrace.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3059

Look at this here is where it is explaned only with other ships
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 Post Posted: Tue Sep 12, 2006 11:20 pm    Post subject:
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DavAlan wrote:
Note if you ever hit a full fleet with a myc swank killing all c1 to c3 in the 1st two sub-battles you will also get this "voiid sub-battle" (ie. 12 cruisers in your c3 WILL not take out the ms and mr too as that battle will not occur)

Just use more that one fleet if youir targets have all classes occupied and you want to hit c4.


2006-09-12 22:14:29
your fleet 1 fights against fleet 1 from e-ray of the simulator at 899/899/89
12.09 22:14:25 - your fleet arrived
12.09 22:12:44 - the enemy fleet arrived

yours: 43 ships
class 3:
12 cruisers (100/100, 60 MP)
10 apollo cruiser (0/100, 85 MP)
10 cyclopses (0/100, 120 MP)
10 plasma gunship (0/100, 92 MP)
class 4:
1 mothership (0/1000, 320 MP)

enemy: 1699 ships
class 1:
1500 fighters (1/1, 1 MP)
class 2:
180 destroyers (10/10, 8 MP)
class 3:
18 cruisers (100/100, 60 MP)
class 4:
1 mothership (0/1000, 320 MP)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
your class 3 vs enemy class 1: V ^
you:
12 cruisers
10 cyclopses
10 apollo cruiser
10 plasma gunship
enemy:
1500 fighters

10 plasma gun locks on one target and kill 10 ships
10 cyclopses destroy 1000 ships
10 apollo cruisers destroy 100 ships
12 cruisers vs 12 fighters

100 fighters vs 1 cyclops
200 fighters vs 2 cruisers
100 fighters vs 1 plasma gunship
100 fighters vs 1 apollo cruiser
30 fighters vs 1 cruiser
losses:
you :
2 cruisers
1 cyclops
1 apollo cruiser
1 plasma gunship
enemy :
1012 fighters
100 destroyers
10 cruisers
score in this subbattle: 1995

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
your class 3 vs enemy class 2: V ^
you:
10 cruisers
9 cyclopses
9 apollo cruiser
9 plasma gunship
enemy:
80 destroyers

8 plasma gun locks on one target and kill 8 ships
7 apollo cruisers destroy 70 ships
4 cyclopses destroy 400 ships
1 cyclops destroys 88 ships
1 apollo cruiser destroys 1 ship
9 cruisers vs 9 destroyers

20 destroyers vs 2 plasma gunship
7 destroyers vs 1 cruiser
5 destroyers vs 1 apollo cruiser
losses:
you :
1 cruiser
2 plasma gunship
enemy :
488 fighters
80 destroyers
8 cruisers
score in this subbattle: 1364

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
---->>>> your class 3 vs enemy class 3: V ^ <<<<-------
you:
9 cruisers
9 cyclopses
9 apollo cruiser
7 plasma gunship
enemy:
losses:
you :
-
enemy :
-
score in this subbattle: 0

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
------->>>> your class 4 vs enemy class 4: V ^ <<<<<------
you:
1 mothership
enemy:
1 mothership
losses:
you :
-
enemy :
-
score in this subbattle: 0

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
summary:
your losses:
class 3:
1 apollo cruiser
1 cyclops
3 cruisers
3 plasma gunship

enemy losses:
class 1:
1500 fighters
class 2:
180 destroyers
class 3:
18 cruisers

score: 3359
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al12
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 Post Posted: Wed Sep 13, 2006 7:23 pm    Post subject:
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Quote:
sometimes you could use 6 missile launchers but not destroy a cruiser (imagine how...)

the cruiser can't intersept missiles, so if oyu have 6 missile lanchers and they all fire a missle at a cruiser shouldn't the cruiser get destroid?
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Rubens
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 Post Posted: Wed Sep 13, 2006 8:05 pm    Post subject:

Good one connor and renee
To al12, yeah that is what i am talking about, look your class 3 are destroyed you only have 6 missiles and the enemy 1 crusier.

You could also have the first turn but what happens? the enemy destroys a missile so you have not enough AP, thats the drawback of the missiles vs c3, that can be destroyed, is not like "oh i sended a missile and it attacks the ship directly"...gotcha?...Thats something to take in account in your battles

Once and again, thanks to connor i was looking that topic too:P
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