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blackmagic
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 Post Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2007 10:51 pm    Post subject:
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al12: Tats why i gave the example where the troikas and sabotage fighters fight directly. The only other way is if there is only 1 hammer or 1 sporator in c1 to defend against the sabatoge fighters.


zenachi: True, but you never know if that person if actually attacking you. like you said everything depends on the DSP. But here's the thing, how often do people check their account?? Also, how many people have a dsp on their base?? I don't have any near my base. Also, as the attacker you have the advantage. You have a dsp on the enemy and you can scout him. Never ever send 1 large fleet at an enemy unless you are sure he doesn't have anything that can destroy your entire fleet. When i attack an enemy i research. I see wat race they are, wat ships he can possibly have, his latest attack report, and any past battles. Then I build a counter fleet and organize the ships on the way to his base. Most the time, the ship configuration you see on the dsp is not the final fleet.
Recently i've been using 3 fleets and sending 2 of them empty with the 3rd fleet full of ships. As i get closer, i look to see if the enemy changed anything, and then start moving ships to the other 2 fleets.

Like wise, doomstars are vulnerable to small fleets. I destroyed on the first week i started playing. Chased it with a 2/2/2/1 fleet and killed it, but i didn't know it was a doomstar. I just knew he had 2 c 4 ships and his race is capable of building a doomstar.

This is way ST is such a great game..... now back on topic, ship uses......


** When using the penguins, i think they can be effectively used if you can stop the recycling. Say you want the penguins to last several battles against several vulnerable fleets. Simply have your c 4 ships destroyed and your penguins won't recycle. After all the battles are over, bring in a defensive fleet and pick up the rest of your penguins. A sacrifice of the c 4 will bring a greater victory. BUT only if you know that the penguin fleet will beat the enemy.
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pontius pilate
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 Post Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 9:19 am    Post subject:
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i think you're wrong about the penguins.

after the fight of each subbattle of your class 4, but only once (if there are more ships doing the same effect) it recycles all penguins in your own fleet in class 1, the targets are removed from the fight, but no points are won or lost.
(battle engine syntax: event,4,recycle,self,all,1,penguin)


they are recycled in your c4 battle and it more than likely requires your c4 to fight in order to get the mothership destroyed. unless the ms is destroyed remotely (like mantis does) your pengs will recycle.
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blackmagic
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 Post Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 11:44 am    Post subject:
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hmmm.... i'm pretty sure i'm rite.... I believe i have done this before but its too long to remember. From past experience i think the event syntax works when the enemy's c 4 is attacking. Because your c4 was killed in a lower class battle it doesn't count. I'll test this out once i finish my research.

I thought i have done this before but i guess not. this might be before the fleet drop was fixed. that was when people dropped fleets by transferring the mothership to another fleet while in flight. That way, 1 fleet had no c 4. forgive me, its been awhile. Forgot a lot of my strategies i used. Anyways, the penguins are the strongest ship for it mp.
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zenachi
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 Post Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 10:23 pm    Post subject:
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I don't really know what pontius is saying, but for penguins, if your c4 fights against the enemy c4, the penguins get recycled.
The same thing with the plague ships, there has to be a c4 vs c4 battle for the plague ships to infect the enemy fleet.
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blackmagic
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 Post Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 11:01 pm    Post subject:
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^________^ yeah!! so i was rite
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Senor
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 Post Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 12:39 pm    Post subject:
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maybe...i'm going to test this today.
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Senor
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 Post Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 3:08 pm    Post subject:
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well i tested this. you don't need c4 v c4 battle for the penguins to recycle. in my example i purposly left my c2 and c3 empty and my pengs recycled when my mothership fought enemy c2.

your class 4 vs enemy class 2: V ^
you:
1 mothership
enemy:
20 destroyers


20 destroyers vs 1 mothership

losses:
you :
1914 penguins
enemy :
-
score in this subbattle: 0


but i still want to test a scenario where my ms actually dies and see if the pengs recycle then also.
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zaphod
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 Post Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 4:23 pm    Post subject:
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i think it´s so: if your class4 start a fight (it´s not from interest what class the enemy is) all of your pengs get recycled. so if you don´t have a class4 they will not recycle.
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Dinskydude
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 Post Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 4:38 pm    Post subject:
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Mantis is C3. Possible test?
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Senor
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 Post Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 5:13 pm    Post subject:
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zaphod wrote:
i think it´s so: if your class4 start a fight (it´s not from interest what class the enemy is) all of your pengs get recycled. so if you don´t have a class4 they will not recycle.


yes, exactly. that's why having mass penguins mixed with interceptors in several fleets without motherships is a great defence.
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Rubens
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 Post Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2007 3:47 am    Post subject:
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I will recommend not to try it. As said before, if your c4 joins at a sub-battle your penguins will recycle.(It doesn't matter if it's enemy's c4) So you can kill a MS with 250 penguins and they wont recycle.

Also, even if all your c4's are destroyed your penguins would recycle too, because your c4 were involved in a sub-battle. Is that simple.

I have no probes of course, you shall trust on my word of experience, and of course, knowing that i don't lie about those thing. Anyway you can try it, but i will recommend to wait the scenario before try it and lose time of production jeje...

So the point is leaving penguins(with commando fighters, emps, mosquitoes, etc) without c4...c2 as specters or c3s as minor reconstructors could be used.

You were wrong BM:P...And if you keep your "secret" fleet for yourself it doesn't matter, you will have to fight and people will discover it. That's why vets and news should share knowledges of strategies, my theory is that many fleets are well structured, many counter fleets will be found and many "not that easy" points could be gotten( a lot of them) and so on...The conclusion in that "theory" would be that the difference between the worst and the best player could be reduced, but here join the game, the alliances and the TIME ON LINE, where the best administrator of that could pass over the 250k pts barrier. I think.

Even so, i can't tell your secret troika fleet, Vets know about it, but the honor between players should be respected.

PD:Al12, excelent...You know, keep going:)

@All:
Try: spectre + mosquitoes + minor
evaporator + sporators
multi-emp-vessels + eagles
And so on...

Greetings, Rubens
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guest
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 Post Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2007 1:02 pm    Post subject:
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Rubens wrote:
I will recommend not to try it. As said before, if your c4 joins at a sub-battle your penguins will recycle.(It doesn't matter if it's enemy's c4) So you can kill a MS with 250 penguins and they wont recycle.

Also, even if all your c4's are destroyed your penguins would recycle too, because your c4 were involved in a sub-battle. Is that simple.


Hi,

My head is at the moment a little dump, so sorry for that Question:

You say Pengs recycel when the Pengs owner Class 4 battle? rifght?

But what is with indirect fire like the Mantis do? So the owners Class 4 will never get a turn.
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Senor
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 Post Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2007 1:28 pm    Post subject:
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then your pengs don\t recycle
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al12
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 Post Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2007 3:14 pm    Post subject:
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I think the penguins will survive. If I attack without class 1 and 2 and only have plasma gun ships and the enemy has some figthers, destroeyrs and cruisers. When my plasma gun ships fight his class 1 that is the sub battle, my plasma gun ships attacking his cruiser is because of the syntax, not a sub battle because then the cruisers should be able to fight back. So should be the same with the penguins, mantis goes of before C4 battles, no C4 battle no penguin loss. Although if this all is a sub battle I am wrong and penguins recycle( and you ar ein trouble :p )
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blackmagic
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 Post Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 7:45 pm    Post subject:
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my secret troika fleet?? do i have one?? ahahah i don't have one. nor do i care if you tell. Its about the strategy on using them. I don't have only 1 combination. I think the penguins do recycle if there is any c 4 confrontation.

I finally remember wat i did with the penguins!!! I use them as defense! LOLss You split the penguins among your 3 fleets at base without a c 4 ship. That way they will survive several battles and having them split up gives your the opportunity to attack upper classes. ^______^

I lost all my troikas because i couldn't get online for a day and a half I lost them all to a huge fleet of penguins X____X ahahhahha wat a coincidence.....
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From the deepest depths of the Galaxy, a new
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Trained assassins ....Who strike down all who
oppose.
MASTERHUNTERS
~Blackmagic of Shadowball~
The Leader of the Best Alliance EVER!!!
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Senor
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 Post Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 8:33 pm    Post subject:
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blackmagic wrote:
I lost all my troikas because i couldn't get online for a day and a half I lost them all to a huge fleet of penguins X____X ahahhahha wat a coincidence.....


more than you think : D
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Rubens
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 Post Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2007 5:49 am    Post subject:
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Guest, what senor and al12 told you is right:P They won't recycle, and what you say is also a perfect resume;)
But it's difficult to find c4's indirect killers;)

PD:Blackmagic..at the end is all about being online:S but you have an advantage of the time at you country:P

Greetings, Rubens
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blackmagic
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 Post Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2007 7:14 am    Post subject:
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ggrrrr senior..... my target wasn't you..... you shall pay very soonnnn
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From the deepest depths of the Galaxy, a new
power is born.
Trained assassins ....Who strike down all who
oppose.
MASTERHUNTERS
~Blackmagic of Shadowball~
The Leader of the Best Alliance EVER!!!
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Senor
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 Post Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2007 10:29 am    Post subject:
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i see.
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al12
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 Post Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2007 4:36 pm    Post subject:

your fleet 1 fights against fleet 1 from *** of *** at ***/***/**
23.12 15:24:59 - your fleet arrived
22.11 18:12:36 - the enemy fleet arrived

yours: 601 ships
class 1:
500 penguins (4/1, 1 MP)
class 2:
100 eagles (2/10, 4 MP)
class 4:
1 mothership (0/1000, 320 MP)

enemy: 1 ship
class 4:
1 mothership (0/1000, 320 MP)


- click here to see the complete battlereport -



summary:
your losses:
-

enemy losses:
class 4:
1 mothership

score: 320

See, no battle with class 4 as he lost it so my penguins didn't recycle.
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