Recent topics Log in
Search Profile
Memberlist Usergroups
Log in to check your private messages
Register
progressive probe
Goto page Previous  1, 2
Post new topic   Reply to topic
SpaceTrace Forum Forum Index » Possible new Technologies » progressive probe
View previous topic :: View next topic  

this vote will decide about the future of this invention:
this can be added to the game
88%
 88%  [ 16 ]
it needs some changes but it is a good invention
11%
 11%  [ 2 ]
i will post the needed changes here
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
no good try another one
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Total Votes : 18

Author Message
Robert Roy
Vice Admiral
Vice Admiral


Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 525
Location: Netherlands

 Post Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 6:35 pm    Post subject:
Reply with quote

SOAT wrote:
mjx1 wrote:
lol i dont have a clue what soat said either but...


yup, my english su ck

It was quite understandable. It doesn't have to do with english or being intelligent, but simply level of education.

It clearly made sense and it clarified it for me.

But even if it would have been better in required time, I wouldn't use it because you can't turn it around.
So if we just act like this new probe would be better, you were gonna scan all planets within 80 sectors from your planet in every imaginary direction, you would let's say first go to x+40/7/z and you would just scan planets in a straight line.
In the long run it wouldn't be bad (And thus it might be usefull in the long run.), but if you need some targets quickly, it is much better to have option 1 instead of 2:
- To know all planets within 10 sectors in any direction
- To know a few of the planets within 10 sectors in any direction plus some others but those are further away and thus not interesting yet.
_________________
Nulla poena sine lege..
 Back to top »
View user's profile Send private message
Rubens
Admiral
Admiral


Joined: 20 Apr 2003
Posts: 1422

 Post Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 10:07 pm    Post subject:
Reply with quote

SOAT wrote:
mjx1 wrote:
lol i dont have a clue what soat said either but...


yup, my english su ck

also used only high estimates and cube instead of cylinder... oops, so the moving probe is even slightly worse



regards



SOAT is just using the formula to calculate the V of a sphere(or somethingxD) which is 4/3 *pi(3,1416)*r*r*r.


Indeed he is right, if you reduce the time as i said it would hard to manage.

But what you didnt take ina ccount at least you made the ship is that the probe scan everything...Well i think so...

Am i right? I mean it should work as a oscilation, a investigation and all that together EXCEPT as a pyramid device or DSP which is already something like a investigation probe that can be moved on the space.

If this is just a investigation probe that estabilish comrelays its pretty useless.

If you want something like that just use the pyramid device or combine it with the normal investigation probe.

Another question, does this probe estabilish connection while moving or you have to wait till it is on the exact sector?. Before adding it we should know how the hell will this work.

Once and again the ship created is senseless but the idea is quite good
 Back to top »
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
SOAT
Commander
Commander


Joined: 02 May 2005
Posts: 91

 Post Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 11:05 pm    Post subject:
Reply with quote

As I understand, it was meant as a normal investigation probe that estabilishes only com relays while moving, just a probe for getting com links, no ship at all.

About the useless, as Robert Roy told, it may have its use if someone want to get com links from distant places with minimal effort and you may be even offline several days.



regards
 Back to top »
View user's profile Send private message
admin
Board Admin
Board Admin


Joined: 09 Jan 2002
Posts: 2938

 Post Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 11:06 pm    Post subject:
Reply with quote

this is how we could add it: the probe doesent scan while it is moving, but when it reaches the target it scans there and you can enter new coordinates where it should fly next. you can even change course while flying, but it will always only scan when it stops somewhere. it will not be race specific, and it will be availiable on a planet first. maybe we add it to the tec tree later

SOAT: maybe you can calculate the perfect scanradius and speed, so it will be balanced with the investigation probe?
 Back to top »
View user's profile Send private message
Rubens
Admiral
Admiral


Joined: 20 Apr 2003
Posts: 1422

 Post Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 11:23 pm    Post subject:
Reply with quote

admin wrote:
this is how we could add it: the probe doesent scan while it is moving, but when it reaches the target it scans there and you can enter new coordinates where it should fly next. you can even change course while flying, but it will always only scan when it stops somewhere. it will not be race specific, and it will be availiable on a planet first. maybe we add it to the tec tree later

SOAT: maybe you can calculate the perfect scanradius and speed, so it will be balanced with the investigation probe?


Ok now we understand that.

So i say its useless...at least i wont use it. It needs to be a lot faster. You are just getting the 4 hours of building a investigation probe as a gain? And for sure we need to us ethis ship in a long run so those 4 hours are lost when this probe is flying.

I think it should scan for nearby ships in prewarp planets, other probe and etc.
 Back to top »
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
SOAT
Commander
Commander


Joined: 02 May 2005
Posts: 91

 Post Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 11:52 pm    Post subject:
Reply with quote

admin wrote:
maybe you can calculate the perfect scanradius and speed, so it will be balanced with the investigation probe?


The moving investigation probe as originally suggested has a advantage that one doesnt need to worry about it when it starts for maybe several days. This is contrary to the standard investigation probes where one needs to build them often and only rarely is effecient (like the probe has to wait before starting if the player is offline, often many hours).

I estimated that the standard investigation probe is about 4 times better than the moving version with scanradius 5 and speed 2, if you need scan up to about 70 sectors away in particular direction. But it assumes 100% effeciency with the normal investigation probes, like sending them right when they are build, which is rarely done. Also if it will make sence to scan more than 100 sectors away in particular direction, then the standad investigation would be about 3 times better (assuming 100% effeciency) than the moving version.

So, my personal view, if you make it about 2-2.5 times better, the moving version will be very comparable to the standard one.

So mayby speed 4 (2 times better) or even 5 (2.5 times better) with scanradius 5

Or speed 2 and scanradius 7 (2 times better because for cylinder, or better pie, S=pi*r*r where 5*5=25 and 7*7=49 ) or even scanradius 8 (about 2.5 times better because 8*8=64 )


Of course if the suggested feature would be used like user may change the course then the balancing would be different, your suggested speed 2 and scanradius 5 would be good enought without the need of increasing, but if too good i dont know



regards
 Back to top »
View user's profile Send private message
Rubens
Admiral
Admiral


Joined: 20 Apr 2003
Posts: 1422

 Post Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2006 12:15 am    Post subject:
Reply with quote

SOAT wrote:
admin wrote:
maybe you can calculate the perfect scanradius and speed, so it will be balanced with the investigation probe?


The moving investigation probe as originally suggested has a advantage that one doesnt need to worry about it when it starts for maybe several days. This is contrary to the standard investigation probes where one needs to build them often and only rarely is effecient (like the probe has to wait before starting if the player is offline, often many hours).

I estimated that the standard investigation probe is about 4 times better than the moving version with scanradius 5 and speed 2, if you need scan up to about 70 sectors away in particular direction. But it assumes 100% effeciency with the normal investigation probes, like sending them right when they are build, which is rarely done. Also if it will make sence to scan more than 100 sectors away in particular direction, then the standad investigation would be about 3 times better (assuming 100% effeciency) than the moving version.

So, my personal view, if you make it about 2-2.5 times better, the moving version will be very comparable to the standard one.

So mayby speed 4 (2 times better) or even 5 (2.5 times better) with scanradius 5

Or speed 2 and scanradius 7 (2 times better because for cylinder, or better pie, S=pi*r*r where 5*5=25 and 7*7=49 ) or even scanradius 8 (about 2.5 times better because 8*8=64 )


Of course if the suggested feature would be used like user may change the course then the balancing would be different, your suggested speed 2 and scanradius 5 would be good enought without the need of increasing, but if too good i dont know



regards


I note something wrong or at least not taken in account in your calcs.

This invention CAN NOT be better then the investigation probe, even not balanced at the same. It has to be just different so then you will have 2 options.

Find fast till a medium distance or find slow-medium at any distance without having the problem of been online.

Of course we have to remember that you just scan when it is not moving.

PD:If added scan each 100-200 ly till you go to sleep

Then i repeat, will this work just as a moving version of the IP? If so...
Warp 5 Scanradius 4-6...So you can fly with an eye on the sky a MS and this probe attacking any base.


Sorry about this but i want to repeat, just a IP's version moving sucks. Why to research this when you can keep making investigation probes and you just have 3 slots of probe in which a normal player uses 3 DSP or 2 and 1 EOTS? (Which cans ee bases whil moving), also a we have the IP ETA calculator, then we would need to do a new one with this etc...
 Back to top »
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Grim Fandango
Lieutenant Commander
Lieutenant Commander


Joined: 26 Mar 2006
Posts: 58
Location: USA

 Post Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2006 1:05 am    Post subject:
Reply with quote

wow atually not too bad for an invention coming fromkody *cough* *cough* *MAC Cannon* *cough*
 Back to top »
View user's profile Send private message
lilkrnboi1018
Admiral
Admiral


Joined: 16 Apr 2005
Posts: 1182
Location: Pennsylvania, USA

 Post Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2006 1:28 am    Post subject:
Reply with quote

hey wait, i never said i didn't understand SOAT, i got wat he said, i'm just saying he is getting pretty technical
_________________
PWNAGE!

Gotta love the Magnum (RE 0-3)
Or the Eagle (RE 3)
Leader of DEFIANCE
The grounds are soaked... with your blood!
 Back to top »
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
admin
Board Admin
Board Admin


Joined: 09 Jan 2002
Posts: 2938

 Post Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2006 8:51 am    Post subject:
Reply with quote

(technical calculations are needed here)

SOAT wrote:
admin wrote:
maybe you can calculate the perfect scanradius and speed, so it will be balanced with the investigation probe?

Of course if the suggested feature would be used like user may change the course then the balancing would be different, your suggested speed 2 and scanradius 5 would be good enought without the need of increasing, but if too good i dont know
Rubens wrote:
will this work just as a moving version of the IP? If so...
Warp 5 Scanradius 4-6

Code:
investigation probe:
scanradius: 10
speed: warp 10
researchtime: 8 h
buildingtime: 4 h

so i suggest:
scanradius: 5
speed: warp 2
researchtime: 8 h
buildingtime: 10 h


i still think this is balanced:
8 times less volume in one scan
very slow.
it will only scan when you are online and stop at certain places

i assume the "efficiency" of using normal IPs is about one probe a day for a normal user, that takes his time out for sleep
with this probe, to scan the same radius, you need to change course 8 times a day, which is balanced (quite a lot work)

the advantage of this probe will grow, when you ave far away from base, so it woiuld add something new to the gameplay
 Back to top »
View user's profile Send private message
SOAT
Commander
Commander


Joined: 02 May 2005
Posts: 91

 Post Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2006 9:35 am    Post subject:
Reply with quote

admin wrote:
i assume the "efficiency" of using normal IPs is about one probe a day for a normal user, that takes his time out for sleep



Then he will scan at distant place this Volume:

V = 4/3 * pi * r*r*r, where r=10
V= 4188

Lets consider the player will use your probe this way that he move it just 2 sectors away every 3 hours, 6 times a day

Very roughly estimate is Cylinder Volume if he will move in one direction only:
V = pi * r*r*v, where r=5 and v=12 sectors
V=943 , and even smaller because it will be not whole cylinder volume scanned

So as you see with normal IP you will scan almost 5 times bigger distant Volume in a day than with this moving version



regards
 Back to top »
View user's profile Send private message
Rubens
Admiral
Admiral


Joined: 20 Apr 2003
Posts: 1422

 Post Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2006 3:44 pm    Post subject:
Reply with quote

admin wrote:
(technical calculations are needed here)

SOAT wrote:
admin wrote:
maybe you can calculate the perfect scanradius and speed, so it will be balanced with the investigation probe?

Of course if the suggested feature would be used like user may change the course then the balancing would be different, your suggested speed 2 and scanradius 5 would be good enought without the need of increasing, but if too good i dont know
Rubens wrote:
will this work just as a moving version of the IP? If so...
Warp 5 Scanradius 4-6

Code:
investigation probe:
scanradius: 10
speed: warp 10
researchtime: 8 h
buildingtime: 4 h

so i suggest:
scanradius: 5
speed: warp 2
researchtime: 8 h
buildingtime: 10 h


i still think this is balanced:
8 times less volume in one scan
very slow.
it will only scan when you are online and stop at certain places

i assume the "efficiency" of using normal IPs is about one probe a day for a normal user, that takes his time out for sleep
with this probe, to scan the same radius, you need to change course 8 times a day, which is balanced (quite a lot work)

the advantage of this probe will grow, when you ave far away from base, so it woiuld add something new to the gameplay


I still dont get why would be this usefull in a long distance? This probe can keep moving but with YOUR suggestion it travels 5 time less. So who wouldnt use the normal IP?

Also we should think about another drawback to implement this ship. What about a better probe but it takes 2 slots?...
 Back to top »
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Animal311
2nd Lieutenant
2nd Lieutenant


Joined: 19 Apr 2006
Posts: 14
Location: Kashyyk

 Post Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2006 11:32 pm    Post subject:
Reply with quote

it is me the Animal, i have resently returned from the dead to say that this is my invention, and i will respect any input, so that in the future, when i rise again, it will be in an improved state oh and grim fandango? Cody is spelled with a C
_________________
I am The Animal, in mind and spirit and i rise again

a wise man once said; "PUDDING" and was so smitten for his insolence

What is Civil War but a War on Civility?
 Back to top »
View user's profile Send private message
Animal311
2nd Lieutenant
2nd Lieutenant


Joined: 19 Apr 2006
Posts: 14
Location: Kashyyk

 Post Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2006 11:45 pm    Post subject:
Reply with quote

i origionally intended for this to be a fire and forget type of thing, it doesent deed to stop or be redirected, you simply send it to some far of coords and it slowly feeds you intell about where its been, after it reeched its destination or ran out of use, you just destroy it, it just never stops moving or scanning
_________________
I am The Animal, in mind and spirit and i rise again

a wise man once said; "PUDDING" and was so smitten for his insolence

What is Civil War but a War on Civility?
 Back to top »
View user's profile Send private message
Grim Fandango
Lieutenant Commander
Lieutenant Commander


Joined: 26 Mar 2006
Posts: 58
Location: USA

 Post Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2006 12:58 am    Post subject:
Reply with quote

yes I know it is with a c but k's are way better
 Back to top »
View user's profile Send private message
omalicat
1st Rear Admiral
1st Rear Admiral


Joined: 10 Jun 2006
Posts: 253
Location: on my fleet tender, belgium

 Post Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 6:36 pm    Post subject:
Reply with quote

i like it
 Back to top »
View user's profile Send private message
Knight of Truth
Admiral
Admiral


Joined: 12 Jan 2006
Posts: 2011

 Post Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 3:13 pm    Post subject:
Reply with quote

me too, and didnt admin say he would add it? for ones, youve done good in opening an old topic. but your still a spammer
_________________
[img]http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/599/kot2ks1.jpg[/img]

MicroJak wrote:

For fuck's sake would you both please stop fucking swearing!!!!
 Back to top »
View user's profile Send private message
Reapin101
2nd Lieutenant
2nd Lieutenant


Joined: 21 Oct 2006
Posts: 12

 Post Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2006 8:36 am    Post subject:

did this ever get put into the game??? it was a good invetion

lol its nostalgic looking at my old profile:)23
 Back to top »
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
SpaceTrace Forum Forum Index » Possible new Technologies » progressive probe
Post new topic   Reply to topic All times are GMT + 1 Hour
Goto page Previous  1, 2
Page 2 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum




Solaris phpBB theme/template by Jakob Persson
Copyright © Jakob Persson 2003



Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group

Impressum