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Nicansis
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Joined: 24 Mar 2006
Posts: 97
Location: Phoenix, AZ

 Post Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2006 6:17 am    Post subject: More BR Help.
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Whats going on here? Why is it one to one on my Fighters (mostly) and one for one on my destroyers and cruisers? Is it just lucky?

yours: 1056 ships
class 1:
900 fighters (1/1, 1 MP)
class 2:
117 destroyers (10/10, 8 MP)
class 3:
36 cruisers (100/100, 60 MP)
class 4:
3 motherships (0/1000, 320 MP)

enemy: 138 ships
class 1:
91 fighters (1/1, 1 MP)
class 2:
25 destroyers (10/10, 8 MP)
class 3:
21 cruisers (100/100, 60 MP)
class 4:
1 mothership (0/1000, 320 MP)
buildings:
1 defensive array (0/500, 0 MP)
1 research center (0/3500, 0 MP)
1 shipyard (0/3500, 0 MP)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
your class 1 vs enemy class 1: V ^
you:
900 fighters
enemy:
91 fighters


91 fighters vs 91 fighters

90 fighters vs 90 fighters


losses:
you :
90 fighters
enemy :
91 fighters
score in this subbattle: 1

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
your class 2 vs enemy class 2: V ^
you:
117 destroyers
enemy:
25 destroyers


25 destroyers vs 25 destroyers

25 destroyers vs 25 destroyers


losses:
you :
25 destroyers
enemy :
25 destroyers
score in this subbattle: 0

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
your class 3 vs enemy class 3: V ^
you:
36 cruisers
enemy:
21 cruisers


21 cruisers vs 21 cruisers

20 cruisers vs 20 cruisers

losses:
you :
20 cruisers
enemy :
21 cruisers
score in this subbattle: 60

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
your class 4 vs enemy class 4: V ^
you:
3 motherships
enemy:
1 mothership
1 shipyard
1 research center
1 defensive array









1 defensive array defends in class 3: 1 ship
1 defensive array defends in class 2: 10 ships
1 defensive array defends in class 1: 50 ships




losses:
you :
50 fighters
10 destroyers
1 cruiser
enemy :
-
score in this subbattle: -190

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
summary:
your losses:
class 1:
140 fighters
class 2:
35 destroyers
class 3:
21 cruisers

enemy losses:
class 1:
91 fighters
class 2:
25 destroyers
class 3:
21 cruisers

score: -129
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spacetrace
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Joined: 24 Dec 2001
Posts: 1624

 Post Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2006 2:17 pm    Post subject: Re: More BR Help.
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Nicansis wrote:
Whats going on here? Why is it one to one on my Fighters (mostly) and one for one on my destroyers and cruisers? Is it just lucky?

yours: 1056 ships
class 1:
900 fighters (1/1, 1 MP)
class 2:
117 destroyers (10/10, 8 MP)
class 3:
36 cruisers (100/100, 60 MP)
class 4:
3 motherships (0/1000, 320 MP)

enemy: 138 ships
class 1:
91 fighters (1/1, 1 MP)
class 2:
25 destroyers (10/10, 8 MP)
class 3:
21 cruisers (100/100, 60 MP)
class 4:
1 mothership (0/1000, 320 MP)
buildings:
1 defensive array (0/500, 0 MP)
1 research center (0/3500, 0 MP)
1 shipyard (0/3500, 0 MP)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
your class 1 vs enemy class 1: V ^
you:
900 fighters
enemy:
91 fighters


91 fighters vs 91 fighters

90 fighters vs 90 fighters


losses:
you :
90 fighters
enemy :
91 fighters
score in this subbattle: 1

this is the normal way. equal ships will destroy each other in this way. If noione has a superior strategy the score will be around 0

Quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
your class 2 vs enemy class 2: V ^
you:
117 destroyers
enemy:
25 destroyers


25 destroyers vs 25 destroyers

25 destroyers vs 25 destroyers


losses:
you :
25 destroyers
enemy :
25 destroyers
score in this subbattle: 0

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
your class 3 vs enemy class 3: V ^
you:
36 cruisers
enemy:
21 cruisers


21 cruisers vs 21 cruisers

20 cruisers vs 20 cruisers

losses:
you :
20 cruisers
enemy :
21 cruisers
score in this subbattle: 60

see above
Quote:



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
your class 4 vs enemy class 4: V ^
you:
3 motherships
enemy:
1 mothership
1 shipyard
1 research center
1 defensive array

1 defensive array defends in class 3: 1 ship
1 defensive array defends in class 2: 10 ships
1 defensive array defends in class 1: 50 ships




losses:
you :
50 fighters
10 destroyers
1 cruiser
enemy :
-
score in this subbattle: -190

the defensive array is dangerous opponent wich blasts several ships => loss of score
Quote:



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
summary:
your losses:
class 1:
140 fighters
class 2:
35 destroyers
class 3:
21 cruisers

enemy losses:
class 1:
91 fighters
class 2:
25 destroyers
class 3:
21 cruisers

score: -129


you had an tactical equal fleet , but your enemy had a defensive array which decided the battle.
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Nicansis
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Joined: 24 Mar 2006
Posts: 97
Location: Phoenix, AZ

 Post Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2006 2:59 pm    Post subject:
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Thanks for the reply and guidance ST!
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T2
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Joined: 26 Mar 2005
Posts: 1398
Location: Ontario

 Post Posted: Fri Mar 31, 2006 5:49 am    Post subject:
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Something even more to notice other than ST's description and that is.....
You almost broke even in this fight except for the Def array being there.
The thing to remember is a very slight change to your basic fleet could have yielded fairly large difference in score to a big win or loss.
The point I'm trying to make is, don't get caught up in sending out a bunch of newly researched "speciality" ships as you evolve. They generally cost more MP to build and if not applied properly, You will find your score will go down. Rather, keep the basic fleet like you built and sub in just a few speciality ships to see the effect. As you get to know how a perticular ship works, you can be more "daring" for higher score if you think you know what is in the enemy fleet.
The other really important thing is the battle order itself. For instance, what would be the result if you would have used 2 fleets instead of 1...same mp in total but 1 fleet had mostly fighters and the other fleet had mostly destroyers. A different result again....
That makes this game great !
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Nicansis
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Posts: 97
Location: Phoenix, AZ

 Post Posted: Fri Mar 31, 2006 6:38 am    Post subject:
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So with these ships that I currently had, if I threw in say a single Cyclops, the outcome might have been signifacant?
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T2
Admiral
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Joined: 26 Mar 2005
Posts: 1398
Location: Ontario

 Post Posted: Fri Mar 31, 2006 2:00 pm    Post subject:
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Nicansis wrote:
So with these ships that I currently had, if I threw in say a single Cyclops, the outcome might have been signifacant?


A cyclops would not have made as big a difference in this case because you had destroyed all the enemy c1 ships BUT, lets say you had the 91 fighters and the enemy had the 1000 fighters, you each still would have lost around 90-91 fighters when the c1 sub-battle happened. The battle result would have been the same unless you had a cyclops in your fleet. Then the cyclops would have fired into the REMAINING 900 enemy fighters and destroyed another 100 of them when the c3 battle happened..
On the reverse of this, you could have lost your cyclops to an enemy cruiser ship when the c3 battle took place. This is where the random factor kicks in and depends who fires first and perticularly, the fighting order of the available c3 ships. If your 20 cruisers shot first, and the cyclops shot last, you would be laughing but if the cyclops went first against the enemy cruisers, you would have lost your cyclops.
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Nicansis
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Location: Phoenix, AZ

 Post Posted: Fri Mar 31, 2006 3:24 pm    Post subject:
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So who get to fire first? Is that random, or since I went to the planet with the intention to make an assult do I shoot first?
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mjx1
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Joined: 07 Mar 2004
Posts: 2258
Location: england

 Post Posted: Fri Mar 31, 2006 3:57 pm    Post subject:
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random i believe but some people are argueign that the first person online should have the first show its all very controversial as is the DA worste invention ever the amount of times ive lost unfairly because the DA fired
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T2
Admiral
Admiral


Joined: 26 Mar 2005
Posts: 1398
Location: Ontario

 Post Posted: Fri Mar 31, 2006 6:25 pm    Post subject:
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MJX1 is right. The "shoot first" is entirely random as is what ships fight first in a sub-battle if you have different types of ships in a specific sub-class.
This is really the only "luck factor" within the game and by stacking the right amount of the different ships in a sub class, you can increase your odds of a battle order happening in your favor.

An example happened the other day to a player who sent in small fleet of bounty hunters (say 10 c1) against a fleet of 10 c2 destroyers. He included a "hammer " to damage the destroyers first so the bounty hunters could destroy them as they are only effective against a damaged ships. As luck would have it, the hammer was the last ship to fire in his c1 fleet and the bounty hunters were all ineffective and got destroyed.

Odds could have been increased by adding some regular fighters to his fleet and they may have fought first instead of the bounty hunters committing sucide against non-damaged ship.
The ideal situation would have been the Hammer shot first ,damaging the destroyers, and as enemy and your fleet alternate turns, you have a bounty shoot, then 1 of his remaining destroyers shoots at one of your fighters. Then your bounty hunter shoots again and so on etc.
Very rarely will this "perfect" scenario happen but the point is, you can increase your odds of success despite the "luck" factor
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Nicansis
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Location: Phoenix, AZ

 Post Posted: Sat Apr 01, 2006 5:53 am    Post subject:
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It would seem that if I make an assualt on a fleet or planet, That I should get first shot. That is how it is in real life. I can understand the randomness within the classes.
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T2
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 Post Posted: Sat Apr 01, 2006 2:41 pm    Post subject:
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Taking "the first shot" would have made very little difference in the above battle. It would apply to the c1 battle only and made a difference by about 1 fighter won or lost. I don't know if the battle order continues into the c2 and c3 classes but I would assume it does. It still does nothing in deciding what ship fights first in a sub-class where different types of ships are involved. So...the question is....should you have an even number of c1's and a odd number of c2's so your c3 gets to shoot first or second? Depends on what your enemies ship count is I guess
It gets too complicated for me to try to figure out and my "need" to win has never been great enough to motivate me to figure it out. Maybe someone else has put this all together.
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Nicansis
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 Post Posted: Sat Apr 01, 2006 11:09 pm    Post subject:
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Well T2 how the hell do you know all this stuff anyway? Have you been playing long? I suppose I need to get my butt kicked some more to learn all this stuff
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Nicansis
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 Post Posted: Sat Apr 01, 2006 11:09 pm    Post subject:
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Well T2 how the hell do you know all this stuff anyway? Have you been playing long? I suppose I need to get my butt kicked some more to learn all this stuff
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T2
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 Post Posted: Sun Apr 02, 2006 1:11 am    Post subject:
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LOL...well...as you can see by my forum join date, it's been about a year. I still get my butt kicked on a regular basis. I'm not very good at predictions to what the enemy has in his fleet. If I battle someone on a ongoing basis, then I'm able to hold my own after I learn my opponents style. I don't make a point of hitting empty bases and I do not hunt first or 2nd evo players. As a result, my score is usually low and I usually lose casual encounters. I am learning how to minimize my losses by doing what I suggested you do by using the basic fleet ships with more advanced ships interwoven within.
I'm still looking for that "magic" universal fleet set-up that wins 75% of the time but so far it has eluded me.
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Nicansis
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 Post Posted: Sun Apr 02, 2006 4:21 am    Post subject:
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T2 I just got s p a n k e d on a battle. I sent over two fleets, and they both were wiped into oblivion except my ms. I was hit so hard by this person I don't know what hit me. I took a -1084 on the strike. When you first started were you in the minus for awhile?
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Nicansis
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 Post Posted: Sun Apr 02, 2006 4:23 am    Post subject:
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T2 Where in Canada are you?
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T2
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 Post Posted: Sun Apr 02, 2006 4:45 am    Post subject:
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Don't worry too much about being in negative score. It is unrealistic to expect anything other than negative score unless you have someone with considerable experience looking over your shoulder.
After all, did you win your first game of chess or checkers you played before you even knew how the game pieces moved?
It takes a while to learn on your own and there is so much I have yet to learn, I feel I'm just starting to understand the game. The stratigies I have seen the more experienced guys use in thier fleet set-ups just blows me away.
Some people are more natural at stacking thier fleets than others as well They see outcomes of combinations easier I guess. I am not so blessed.

I live in Eastern Ontario.
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Nicansis
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 Post Posted: Sun Apr 02, 2006 6:37 am    Post subject:
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damn, I always s u c k e d at chess!! Hope to do better here! I have family in Rocky Mountain House, Alberta. Had a long distance romance once with Juanita. She lives in Newfoundland. I visited there once, and got screeched in at some pub. don't remember much of that nite. I'm practally a cannok (most likely mis-spelled), Shooot getting a little off subject here. I Need to come back.
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T2
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 Post Posted: Mon Apr 03, 2006 1:06 am    Post subject:

I think Newfoundland is the coolest place on earth. Such diversity in the habitat. Definitely a distinct society as it was an isolated global melting pot in the 1600's.
The most wonderful sense of humor...

Sorry....I digress..............
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