Is everyone leaving space trace...

[mjx1]

first of all lets get this slightly spammy bit out of the way before i actually say something real Ratchet tell me more about combatground it looks so cool.

okay now back too a real post

when i first started there were on adverage 300-400 players onlien at one given time and there was about 3-20 people in the irc at one time NEVER none in fact at one point Gorthmog almost lived there but when i first started there was a big issue about multies but now thanks too cooperation between players and admins we no longer have this but also when i started playing the forum was chockblock with real posts no spam at all

spacetrace i have too say is a hard too find game but its worth it when you do find it

i think the problem maybe that this is a complicated game and noobs can sometimes give up on it especially if there surrounded by the more experienced players im no noob basher myself but if i see a neighbour close by i will attack him on the basis that i dotn have much time too play for real and i would usually probe them before attacking them it just makes it easier not having too send a fleet half way across the galaxy and killing them off when theres someone right next too you although in alliance warfare i will kill everythign and everyone regardless of distance

as for old players leaving indeed a hell of a lot of them have which is a real shame

anyway im starting too sound like an old man on about the "good olde days" but you should know by now that i always post my opinion on any matter i can and if anybody has a problem with my opinions fair enough
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"Although the constant shadow of certain death looms over everyday, the pleasures and joys of life can be so fine and deeply affecting that the heart is nearly stilled by astonishment" - Dean R Koontz

[Armedes]

jup, lowvoice is right, can't really ad much to the post
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The spartans do not ask how many....

but where!

[Rubens]

STFU about your fight people, back to the topic!!!
I dont want to be cocky but nowadays i think i am the most experimented player that has written in this topic...And i will reply everything, look ppl.

1° MAybe multis but not farmers and that is not the proportion bro, even so, at least the people wanted to play and made other accounts
2°Since when are you playing? do you know wich changes i am blaming to? Is casuality that in MORE THAN A YEAR! our comunity hasnt growned and that before the changes we were a bigger community?
3°Bro, i always have heard that my life vission is quite dfficult to understand, but i am still going in my way;) so, i am 15 years old and let me say you that sometimes i have left other thing just for play ST, sometimes you are awake at 3 :00 am of your country because you need to attack. And i think that the age dosnt matter in those ocasions.
4°MPOGD, This is a directory of online games and more, we are there (ST)Plz, click in the page and see the caracteristics of Spacetrace, this is a game really different than others, and in my opinon(i think without subjectivity) this game is UNIC. And i think 1 of the requisits that the game puts you is to be on-line. As more you are on-line more you are able to understand the game and to win a battle. If you do not have enough time, you just have less possiblities of be at the topten, is just that easy (to me).
5°This is not a turn game based
6°The other dude, i give you this tips. We have the guest account!!!!! and more than everything the people DO NOT READ THE MANUAL(SO BAD), As i have said this is game is a bit complicated and if you don't read the manual it would be hard to understand how to be sucefull.
So, the noob tha do not read the manual are not enough interested in the game, so at the end we really dont need them a lot. But if we want to expand our comunity we should accept them, but if they get started and really like the game they will stay, never mind if they lose or they win...
7°IS someone asking wich changes?
The evolution style, CTF, Shps, everything, they arent so bad(except the evolution:S) But they were added in a bad time

[Spyder]

Well I agree Rubens, evolution is bad cos nobody wins, amongst other reasons.

CTF I dont mind, but I know of several players who quit because of it.

Red Dragons for those who remember them.
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Space Mercenaries Inc.

(Temporarily out of business)

[Achilles]

Looks like I have to post under this account to get any respect around here, Rubens.

I have xbox, ps2, and gamecube, as well as some older systems stored away.

I have games that I paid 40-50 dollars for just a few months ago, that I will likely never touch again. Why? Why can I play a perfectly good game for only a couple of months, but I can still be sitting here at the Black Hole after almost three years?

I say that is is a special breed of person that gets into Spacetrace, and stays. ST takes logic, diplomacy, tactics, patience, and long hours of study to become good. Besides that, you have to baby sit your fleets constantly, or risk getting jumped, or simply not advancing.

Most people are not the kind of players that we in the Spacetrace community are. Out of every 50 people that sign up, we should consider ourselves lucky if one stays for six months.

Who cares about the changes? Halo hasnt changed a single lick since I bought it, but I havent touched it in probably over a year!

[j.Climacus]

ST is much harder than other browser gema. It takes time to learn and even more to play successfully. This is some kind of cult. Maybe its not made for thousands of player. Only few of who undersand it.

[Rubens]

Dont know who you are but it seems right to me what u are saying.

Achilles
1ªWhy are using that u have to use ur name? I respect everybody(...)
2ªBack to the topic:P...So, how you explain that since we changed the game the people has left the game? Look what spyder said;).
3ªTotally true bro, excelent comparation(i think, comparation right?) So the point is that if we want to get new people into ST they can not be just friends, they have to be people that like all this game style. Ppl in wich we can trust that they will play a lot this game. Of course someone will leave but it's stupid (for the ST comunity) that we join a friend of ours to the game just to get his help in a war (as example). I think today my enlgish is a bit confused but i hope that everybody understood what i said.
4ªI dont want a game with 10k of players but exchanging publicity with other games (i think preferibly like this) will be good.

The point, i think, is that Spacetrace is dieing, i know that i have just spoken about the ¿why? but nowadays i think we have to post teh solutions

[Metody I The Evil]

Ok, in (not at all) short. Rubens' N2 point is correct and I doubt anyone can deny it. We had a stable large community. Then, a few major changes (and a lot of minor) happened and the players got less. Coincidence? In one case, yes. In 5 cases - maybe. In 10,20... But 100? 200 COINCIDENCES?

Achilles... Pure logic suggests that a, well, (boring, dull, whatever puts you off of Halo, you choose the adjective), game which stays static and unchanged has no way to (re)gain your attention. But you've seen enough evidence of good games whose part 2 is so improved, that it makes you don't wanna even hear about part 3. Movies, and music groups changing styles etc. You might've even witnessed a friend of yours dropping off of Diablo2 'cuz of a patch.

Well, you might say that I'm exaggerating things with the games sequels example. Well, to put it straight:

We're NOT playing SpaceTrace now, this is SpaceTrace 2.

Spacetrace was a round-based game. Now it's evolution.
ST had one score planet. Now they're three.
ST had only one mode of play, let's call it *Deathmatch*. Now, we have CTF in addition. Oh, and, of course, you can chase IT. Not much of a *play mode*, but still, should be mentioned.
In ST, top10 meant something. Now, it has next to no meaning, it's purpose has been taken over by the hall of fame.
We have new ships.
We have relative score.
We have a credit system.
We have a new forum design.
We have new (clear) IRC stats and OPs in IRC.

List goes on. Wormholes, eyes in the skies etc.

So, what's so surprising? How many people you know who played Heroes3 "Shadow of Death" 24/7 went to Heroes 4, keeping the same interest? NFS5 Porsche to NFS6(or whatever it's called)? Civilization fans jumping from 1 to 2, 2 to 3, 3 to 4 with the same determination?
How many die-hard Quake2 fans you know became equally die-hard Quake3 fans? Hardcore Unreal-ists going hardcore on whatever's the newest release of the tournament is?
What are the ratios? Let me guess - one in three? Ok, some maths - what's one third of 500?
Sure there are sequels which keep the crowd and increase it. Do the maths... is ST2 one of them?
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"Unity creates power"
Khan Kubrat to his 5 sons

[Rubens]

Yep, i never said that but i think i make it implicit since a long time ago.
We PLAYED ST2, if we analize it right i think this is ST3.
And thats the point. The scores cant be compared anymore.
I think metody said just what i want to read. I hope the admin is reading this.
I gtg cya

[promethius2]

Sure people are leaving.
People are always leaving, but that doesnt matter.
The numbers are lower and yet after nearly 4 years, this game continues to survive.
Why can't it survive for another 4 years?

There are many changes that people did not like, including the CTF concept. And there are many things that should be added too but have not. Still-- we remain. The game remains.

Glad to have stopped by guys, will post soon.
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Calvin: I'm a genius, but I'm a misunderstood genius.
Hobbes: What's misunderstood about you?
Calvin: Nobody thinks I'm a genius.

[Achilles]

Good point Metody

However, on the flip side, if the game never changed, people would stay that it is "the same old thing", "too boring","been there done that", and quit anyways.

Most of the changes has happened because of PLAYERS!

Players invented CTF, players invented the IT, players invented the Eye in the Sky, players asked for more score planets, players asked for wormholes, players asked for missions (and just got a taste so far).

So why does everybody feel so free to bash the admin? WE ARE SPACETRACE.

The only thing that may have gone undebated was the evolution, I think that was admin's idea. Otherwise, we asked for it, or at least had a chance to discuss it.

If you dont believe me, I can go back and find all the arguments and post the links here, but you guys have been here and probably remember it all like I do. AND, Ill bet you some very respected players thought some of those ideas were good, and even suggested them.

Spacetrace is a work in progress, and we are allowed to help direct it. Now there is a new idea to change the scoring system against newbies. If you dont state your viewpoint now, you cant complain later.

[dakingnl]

built a better game reset this make some big updates this is boring
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AIM THE KING MAHAHAAA

[Star Commander]

Well, the admin really is not in control hes just like a secoundary rank player thats it really this ilike an online lige
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APEmpire

[Metody I The Evil]

Hmmm... This is rather a weird thing indeed, Achilles... Some food for thought - which Quake2 fan didn't want the graphics to be improved? Which Heroes3 addict didn't dream to have access to some of the features of H4? (Or to have the ability to change the race of the new town he just captured - referring to Wake Of Gods if we're talking expansions...). List goes on...
It's rather a psychological thing - you get what you're after, so... no need to stick around, move on... (And of course, the majority who don't like the changes, well, no need to go psychologic on that )
But the fact remains - changes drive off fans. If the changes are good, new fans appear. If they're not - the thing dies. Either way, the *old guns* of ST have almost but disappeared. I for one took an year brake, originally intended as 3 months... and, if it didn't turn out that I suddenly had a HUGE ammount of free time on my hands, it might've been as well a 2 year one. Or indeffinate.

But enough bashing the admin or the game. I personally hate it when some1 critisizes something, but doesn't do a thing or at least a suggestion on how to improve it, so, erm, I try to not do it.. Time to get on-topic.

Well, ST is indeed a game in progress (or regress, each is free to decide, a few hundred have chosen one of the two options). Which is the main issue. (Since the changes have been happening gradually, so has the response of the general public, which is besides the point).

What do I have in mind?
Well, if you don't like Heroes4, you can always play the H3 indeffinately, same is with Q2 etc. and you still play the game (despite which number it has after it's name ). You don't have that choice with ST. But could you?

Imagine: You register your new account, and discover under preferences a link which says: "Choose your game style". Ridiculous? Nope. Just hard to implement.

Imagine it's full of tick-marks, one of which says: "Do you wanna be involved in capture the flag?". You select "No" and guess what - you can't capture flags. you can't be FC. But if someone captures your alliance flag, you can leave with no penalty... they can claim the flag... but you don't loose points. Well, your alliance claims the flag, guess what - you don't score either. As if the whole CTF is happening to others, but not you.

Imagine another "tick" - "Evolution?" You select No. You discover, that now you are in the round system. There appear to have been rounds going on, hidden from those who selected "Yes". You're fifteen days late since the round started, but that gives you even more will to get in the top10... You discover, that it's a separate top10, a one just for players who chose to go to "rounds". And it's published in the forum at the end of the round as it used to be.

Imagine yet another - "Do you feel like chasing?" and you choose No... you just found out that It won't visit you, you don't know where it is, and, if by some accident you visit a planet where it was... nothing happens.

Imgine you could turn off the hyperdrop sensor. Now you can drop at anyone, yet everyone can drop at you.

And it is a long list... Yet you now control the game you play.

In short: Imagine that admin had the time and will to do so...
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"Unity creates power"
Khan Kubrat to his 5 sons

[Tweety]

I dont play anymore. Its not because the game sucks, but because there're not enough players (I know, me is +1, and what if everyone thinks like you.. )

I know a game which is kind of fucking boring, very easy to play, and thousands of peoply play it. A small group of players are the hardcore ones who're online nearly 24/7, but most of the players just pop in, make some changes, leave. They dont have to understand much, they're not the best players, but they play. When you register on that game, you only need to click through the clear structured menue to get an overview. Then you can build some things, get soem quick wins, and bang, you go on playing. After that state, you'll surely go on and read the tipps section or the manual. But, really, not much peoply want such a hard and confusing start at any game like here in Spacetrace!

I often had ideas like spacetrace light or a "space trace tutorial", where you follow the trace and can practise a bit. The game itself is very good, btu too hard. Probably a new Newbie protection helps.

The fun of a game like that is the interaction and the competition, and you need some players for that. The battle field itself doesnt matter.

[Metody I The Evil]

Hmm, clarifying the descriptions, both in-game, and deffinately in the manual, making 'em less vague/misleading and more, well, descriptive is a good foundation towards easier understanding of ST for newbies... I still (vaguely) remember my first shock, discovering that the penguin was not "a stronger fighter, that recycles itself at the end of any fleet confrontations", but rather the recycling bit worked somewhat more often in the presence of a c4 from the penguin owner... BTW I just noticed that "confrontations" in this example aslo might be misleading - for f*'s sake someone might get some ideas about the battle-pause
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"Unity creates power"
Khan Kubrat to his 5 sons

[Rubens]

Let's see achilles
1ª@Metody, Not everyone can put suggestions. It's not just bashing the admin is just saying what is bad in the game so, someone will have a suggestion;)
2ªI am not saying that the thing do not needs changes but not those DRASTIC changes.And if the game dosnt change and the player thinks is boring he leave the game but someone will find teh game and surely will join more ppl. Can u see the difference between a BAD change and no changes?
3ªOh plz!!!! go back and show me ur arguments bro!
4ªIf i am not wrong JAM invented CTF and the ADMIN change it!
5ªCTF and eye in the sky are good changes but they makes ST too diferent.a But i can be agree with that
6ªWho asked more scoreplantes?Noobs! (in my opinion) It dosnt means that noobs hasn't a vote on ST but i think they were noob that didnt know how ST works or worked.
7ªSome one complain about something because thinks that the change is bad to the game but he dosnt have to make another suggetsion(for everyone)
8ªWHAT THE HELL? PLZ SHOW ME SOMETHING!!!! WHO!!! WHO!!! WHO! ASKED EVOLUTION?If someone asked it they were noobs!.
In the round style we asked a shorter pause NOT evolution. It was all the admin idea, and we have to understand his argument, he dosnt has too much free time, but HE put the evolution style.
9ªDoes the player has a decision over it? I DO CAN SHOW YOU ARGUMENTS, plz check EVERY POLL that i made and you will see that everyone votes for ROUNDS, we want rounds!(As u can see evans there are some pts in wich we do not choise!)
10ªMetody, you are right when you talk about other games. But i ain't agree with your "suggestion". We are just doing the same. a)The good side is taht there is still just ONE game and it's not divided in 2. b)But there would be different way to get scores. With CTF and without it, so there are another 2 differnents posts. c)If you separate evolution of rounds you are making 2 games, or how is it works?.

[Metody I The Evil]

That's the beauty of it. Both those in rounds and in evolution play in the SAME universe, they can battle each other normally etc, it doesn't split the game in two - it's one game. Simply the ones who chose rounds will have a fixed end of play - on a fixed date, and, their ships will go to the BH as in the old days instead of being visited by the dominion Oh, and, they'll also have a fixed date of the start of the next round
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"Unity creates power"
Khan Kubrat to his 5 sons

[T2]

Very interesting , thought provoking dialogue going on ...Metody...your comment on the ship descriptions in the manual is soo true. I didn't say anything much because I thought it was done by people with less grasp in descriptive english writing or English as a second language. I still find many of the descriptins misleading or not at all helpful UNTIL I have a good idea of how the ship works from battle experience. Then I can re-read the description in the manual and get the jist of what info is trying to be conveyed. Experienced players may not notice this problem to the extent that I do.
I never got the chance to play rounds and actually like the evo system but that's all I have ever known so...is it the problem ?
I like 3 score planets...1 would be too busy.....
In short, people are inherently resistant to change and it's thier nature to look, poke, complain, moan and bitch, wish the sky was pink and the list goes on.
ST is sound as a game. It certainly holds it's own and should always have a membership as long as the server is running.

Any game I ever learned, I've found the harder the game is to learn, the more enjoyment I got out of it. When I master it, I continue on for a little while then quit.
Playing against a human element means there will always someone who will challenge your mastery.

If I had the power to change any 1 thing in the game, it would be the research times for ship building. As it is...I never get to try many of the ships that could be available to me resulting in me not getting to know the game/race/species like I desire. Perhaps this is a part of the game made intentional to be this way but I find it frustrating. Perhaps more experience will allow me to see why it is, the way it is.

Nice intelligent discussion....I like it.. .

[Metody I The Evil]

Speaking of rounds, I was always puzzled by what makes preparing the start of a new round so effort and time consuming (mainly 'cuz I don't have very good PHP understanging, actually next to none )... Don't you just copy the old database(s) to a different folder, replace it with a new, previously created empty one - a template of a sort, put in a few links/modifications in the, erm, *code(?)*(basically, where the old base is positioned), and post the top10 in the forums? That could be fully automated by a simple .exe, including the additions to the code... I know that JaM is fully capable of doing it, he knows *exactly* what has to be done after all, also I could do it if I had a list of objectives for what the program should do

PS: Sorry 'bout the extremely expert-on-PHP sounding terms
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"Unity creates power"
Khan Kubrat to his 5 sons