holo ghost summoner

[tec_server]

holo ghost summoner (class 1 ship)

creates ghost ships in the enemy fleet so the enemy will spend one turn when one ghost ship takes his turn


attack/life: 0/10
manpower: 80

researchtime: 2 d
buildingtime: 12 h


e-ray-technology
needed research:
holo technology

battle details:creates 100 ghost fighter in the enemy fleet in class 1
battlemessage: "ghost fighters summoned"
(battle engine syntax: create,enemy,100,1,ghost fighter,ghost fighters summoned,n,)
creates 20 ghost destroyer in the enemy fleet in class 2
battlemessage: "ghost destroyers summoned"
(battle engine syntax: create,enemy,20,2,ghost destroyer,ghost destroyers summoned,n,)
creates 2 ghost cruiser in the enemy fleet in class 3
battlemessage: "ghost cruisers summoned"
(battle engine syntax: create,enemy,2,3,ghost cruiser,ghost cruisers summoned,n)
shuffles all ships in the enemy class 1 that still did not fight
(battle engine syntax: shuffle,enemy,1)
shuffles all ships in the enemy class 2 that still did not fight
(battle engine syntax: shuffle,enemy,2)
shuffles all ships in the enemy class 3 that still did not fight
(battle engine syntax: shuffle,enemy,3)

[Username]

the ghosts are ships 0/1 0 mp that self destructs when takes they turn so the fleet will spend one turn, for example:
enemy fleet class2 infected whit ghost destroyers: 5 destroyers 4 ghost destroyers
your fleet class 2: 6 destroyers
enemy yours
1 ghost destroyer destroyer
2 destroyer destroyer
3 destroyer destroyer
4 ghost destroyer destroyer
5 ghost destroyer destroyer
6 destroyer destroyer
7 ghost destroyer --
8 destroyer --
9 destroyer --

if the enemy fleet starts combat:
enemy 1 ghost destroyer selfdestructs
your 1 destroyer kill enemy destroyer 2
enemy ships 1 and 2 are destroyed
enemy 3 destroyer kills your 1 destroyer
your 2 destroyer kills enemy 3 destroyer
enemy 4 ghost destroyer selfdestructs
your 3 destroyer kills enemy 5 ghost destroyer
enemy 6 destroyer kills your 2 destroyer
your 4 destroyer kills enemy 6 destroyer
enemy 7 ghost destroyer selfdestructs
your 5 destroyer kills enemy 8 destroyer
enemy 9 destroyer kills your 3 destroyer
your 6 destroyer kills enemy 9 destroyer

[Tofu]

Another example:

Your fleet:
3 destroyers

Enemy fleet:
3 destroyers
3 ghost destroyers

1: your destroyer1 destroys ghost destroyer1
2: enemy destroyer1 destroys your destroyer1
3: your destroyer2 destroys ghost destroyer2
4: enemy destroyer2 destroys your destroyer2
5: your destroyer3 destroys ghost destroyer3
6: enemy destroyer3 destroys your destroyer3

Losses:
You: 3 destroyers
Enemy: 3 ghost destroyers
Points: -24

I think the disadvantage of possibly losing a shot is more than evened by the advantage of having cannon fodder.

I like the idea of this ship, but i don´t like class 1 ships with 10 LP. This will make some ships to powerful (e.g. cyclops, reconstructor, ...)

Just my 2 cents.

[Username]

tofu in your example your second destroyer will shoot to the enemy destroyer 1 killing him, and the same thing happens for your destroyer 3, i think that in that example the things will go like this:

your destroyer 1 kills enemy ghost destroyer 1
enemy destroyer 2 kills your destroyer 1
your destroyer 2 kills enemy destroyer 2
enemy ghost destroyer 3 selfdestructs
your destroyer 3 kills enemy destroyer 4
enemy ghost destroyer 5 self destructs
enemy destroyer 6 kills your destroyer 3
enemy losses
3 ghost destroyer
2 destroyer
your losses
3 destroyer
score -8
in this case you lost points because the enemy fleet has only 3 ships and too many ghosts

its true, sometimes you will lose a shoot but that only will occur when in the enemy order a ghost ship follows another ghost ship or the first enemy ship is a ghost and you start shooting so this ship will be useless if you use too many or the enemy have only a few ships
i don't have any problem if the holo ghost summoner cost 40 mp and creates only the half ghost ships (50 c1, 10 c2, 1 c3)or something else

[Tofu]

You are right, Username.

In my example the ships are shuffled like this:

Yours:
destroyer 1
destroyer 2
destroyer 3

Enemy:
destroyer 1
ghost destroyer 1
destroyer 2
ghost destroyer 2
destroyer 3
ghost destroyer 3

I should have stated this before.

Am i right, that the purpose of this ship is to hinder modifying ships like the eagle?

[Username]

sorry tofu but i don't understand what you mean whit hinder modifying ships like the eagle, i think you want to say hinder ships like the wasp, that can be made adding a new battle detail to the ghosts:
modify itself ap/lp *0/1 before fight and, of course, selfdestructs.
the original purpose for this ship is to make the enemy fleet waste a turn for each ghost, so for each ghost you can shoot 2 times

[Tofu]

Yes, you are right, i meant the wasp.

I don´t think, that this ship will fullfil this purpose.
Example:

Yours:
100 destroyers

Enemy:
100 destroyers
100 ghost destroyers.

During your turn, you have a 50% chance of hitting a ghost destroyer.
During the enemys turn, he has a 50% chance of loosing a turn through a ghost destroyer.

Losses:
Yours:
50 destroyers
Enemy:
50 destroyers
100 ghost destroyers

So the ghost destroyers will just act as blockers, preventing losses on both sides (a nice effect though). This effect in addition to the nasty side effect on wasps makes the the holo ghost summoner a very nice invention.

Is it intentional, that the ghost ships remain in the fleet or should they be destroyed after combat?

[Username]

you will alwais hit an enemy ship if don't occur one of this possibilityes:
1 a ghost ship follows another ghost ship
2 the first enemy ship is a ghost and you make the first shoot
3 you use ships like:
emp ships (a jammed ghost ship just acts like a blocker)
interceptors, because they attack more than one ship
dreadnought or shock wave cruiser
hammer etc...

these are the possibilityes:
yours ships
1 destroyer
2 destroyer
3 destroyer
enemy order possibility 1 (acts first)
1 destroyer
2 ghost destroyer
3 destroyer

enemy destroyer 1 kills your destroyer 1
your destroyer 2 kills enemy destroyer 1
enemy 2 ghost destroyer selfdestructs
your destroyer 3 kills enemy destroyer 3

enemy order possibility 2 (acts first)
1 ghost destroyer
2 ghost destroyer
3 destroyer

enemy ghost destroyer 1 self destructs
your destroyer 1 kills enemy ghost destroyer 2
enemy destroyer 3 kills your destroyer 1
your destroyer 2 kills enemy destroyer 3

so if i am not wrong the only way that the ghost are usefull are when a ghost ship follows another ghost ship, but if the ghost ships are less than the usefull ships in the enemy fleet this option will not have many probabilityes to occur (1 ghost ship for every 3 or 4 usefull ships should be fine)

the ghost ships should be destroyed after combat

[JaM]

What about the holo-fleet carrier?
Those ships don't self destruct.
I can't see why this ship is so much better.

[Tofu]

You are completely right Username, my examples are bullsh*t.

@JaM:
This ship keeps the target-counter on the shoot-counter and brings the initiative back to you, so that you can destroy enemy ships before they fire.


I think in combination with fighters, commando fighters and interceptors its quite good in class 1.
In class 2 it should be combined with destroyers, disable ship and retraitors, because you need to do 10 damage with each shot.
In class 3 its somewhat useful with cruisers, against cruisers.

The effect of this ship can be countered with bulk fighter, mosquito blockade runner, holo-fleet-carrier, plasma emitter, flamingo, plaque ship, dreadnought, warcruiser. So i think its very good as a first invention at the start of the game and against class 2 later in the game.
Maybe this ship is to powerful in class 2 because you can only counter the effect with the plasma emitter. On the other hand its quite expensive and therefore only effective against large class 2 fleets.

p.s.: Mines are very interesting! 3

[ This Message was edited by: Tofu on 2003-09-16 14:00 ]

[masterp]

but in class 1 and not like a destroyer in class 2!?


Greetings

[masterp]

sorry forget what i wrote i cannot read the battle details because of my f****** browser!

[JaM]

Sorry, I didn't read so well either. It is in the enemy fleet .
But it's a nice invention. But I don't think it's quite useful, because you shoot also at those ghost ships.

[pluk]

nice ship....i want see it in combat....

[admin]

this ship wont work.

the chance that you destroy a ghost ship, that you created in the enemy fleet is the same like you shoot at the real destroyers, so advantage and disadvantage is even.

i think what you need is a jam ship, isn't it?

[Rubens]

we (all) need say is a too good idea, like a nanovirus but are ready in the same battle.
A good or bad worjk of this ship is the shuffle.Mybe u can give 10 mp o that. i think create too much ghosts. Is more usefull if the ghost arent attacked, so the mp must be 7-100. Maybe less lp, less ghost...are can be good if. in the first turn of the enemy all ghost destroy the ships and self destruct, after the remain ghosts are attacked first an dthe remain destroyers or ships are attacked later

[darklim]

Creating enemy ships to destroy you ships... Will be useless

_________________
The Spam Master of the Spam Alliance

[JaM]

Don't include me when you say we all.
And ghost ships won't shoot at your ships.

[Rubens]

so sorry jam, but if u dont think a plague ship class 1 is a good idea welll. i know this arent as plague ship, but a plague ship class 1 is a good idea

[Username]

if i am not wrong these are the ONLY ways that should occur so you fire to a ghost ship:
1. a ghost follows another ghost; in this case the first ghost selfdestructs and you shoot at the second
2. you jam a ghost
3. you use ships that attack more than one ship at the same time like the interceptor or the schock wave cruiser
4. BEFORE the ghost are a ship that destroy itself like the sporator
5. the first enemy ship is a ghost AND you have the initiative

if i am right and no one of this cases occur you will EVER shoot to an enemy ship different of the ghost example:
in both cases you have cruisers and the enemy have cruisers and some ghost cruisers and NO one of the cases y wrote before happens
1. you have the initiative
the enemy cruisers are shuffled like this
1 cruiser
2 ghost cruiser
3 cruiser

your 1 cruiser shoots to the enemy 1 cruiser
enemy 2 ghost cruiser selfdestroyes
your 2 cruiser shoots to the enemy 3 cruiser

2. the enemy cruisers are shuffled in the same way that before
the enemy have the initiative

enemy 1 cruiser shoots to your 1 cruiser
your 2 cruiser shoots to enemy 1 cruiser
enemy 2 ghost cruiser destroy itself
your 3 cruiser shoots to enemy 3 cruiser

about the possibilities of shoot to a ghost created by yourself there are the solutions
1. you have to play whit probabilities if in the enemy fleet are too many ghost (one ghost for each another tipe ship) then this ship is useless but if in the enemy fleet the proportion are 1 ghost / 3 or 4 ships then the probabilityes that this happen are slow
2. dont use emp ships or use only a few
3. dont use too many interceptors. not use shock wave cruiser or dreadnought or dont count whit ghost in class 3
4. vveeeeerrrryyyyy slow probabilityes. see that if the ghost comes before the sporator you shoot at the porator before it can act so this way you can kill the sporator before it takes his turn
5.its bad luck and only happens one time in the battle

please if you see an error in my theories or you see something that is not here please tell it here